Andrea Yates' Conviction Appealed
Thursday December 16, 2004
Attorneys for Andrea Yates, sentenced to life in prison for drowning her five children, have appealed her conviction, citing 19 errors that were committed in her 2002 trial. They highlighted the testimony of an expert witness who said he consulted on an episode of "Law and Order" in which a woman was found innocent after drowning her children. The prosecution tried to indicate that Yates watched that episode shortly before killing her children. The problem is, defense attorneys said, there is no such episode of the television show. See also: Profile of Andrea Yates.
Comments
I read your profile of Yates, and wow, I thought I had followed it but I must have forgotten a lot of it. In my opinion, her husband should be prosecuted as well if he really urged her to get off her meds and have another baby. Idiot.
I have suffered postpartum depression, not postpartum psychosis, but it was bad enough that I do believe Yates could have been out of her head. (I never would have said that before my own experience. It is very frightening to lose control of your thoughts and emotions, and I don’t think anyone can understand without going there.) But it still scares me to think of her as a free woman. I don’t think I could live with myself if I were her. And if she decides to end it all, I’m afraid she might take a couple of folks with her. Let’s hope she picks the right ones.
What a senseless and seemingly preventable tragedy. It boggles the mind.
Andrea Yates was an intelligent healthy woman once – class valedictorian, an officer of the National Honor Society, swimmer, a registered nurse. Then six years later, she viciously killed her children.
Something went tragically wrong inside the home of Andrea and Rusty Yates. She never should have been encouraged to stop taking her meds and to get pregnant again…and again…and again. She was diagnosed as suffering acute postpartum psychosis.
One has to wonder who is responsible for the horror that took place. Was it all Andrea? The woman who, just 10 days before she murdered her children, was released from a mental institution and taken off Haldol, the one medicine which had proven to help her in the past and told to think happy thoughts? Who in the past withheld food from her children, talked to her television and pulled at her hair until bleeding bald spots appeared?
There is no doubt, at least not to me, that Andrea Yates is insane. Yet, she was left alone with the children, just long enough to kill them. Do you blame those who are insane or those who knowingly place children under unsupervised care of those who are insane?
Rusty has gone on with his life. Andrea can only go on with the hell inside her own mind. As the medications once again begin to help her see reality, her unfathomable actions only become clearer. It is a catch 22. Get better and face the demon inside yourself or stay sick and believe the demon is God.
I doubt there is any prison in which Andrea Yates can be put into which will match the bars of reality which grow closer and thicker as she faces what she has done. Maybe somehow, with her finally receiving the help she should have had before, she might be able to get a glimpse of how life used to be and make it through one day without seeing the demon which consumed her and controlled the hands which took her children’s lives.
I don’t hate Andrea Yates. I see her as a victim of a disease that until the last few years has been completely misunderstood. Sadly, it is the horrific crimes that have occurred by those that suffer postpartum psychosis, that has stimulated the medical attention it deserves. For Andrea, her condition could have been controlled. Ignorance and denial won out and the result was tragic and unimaginable.
I am sure there are many people who will feel I am letting a killer off the hook. On the contrary – Andrea must pay for her crime. And possibly, if given an opportunity to receive care for her mental disease, she may be able to help others understand the true risks of untreated postpartum psychosis.
It boggles my mind, makes me cry, and it’s just wrong that a woman with all these children is left at home to care for them even though her HUSBAND knew what was going on with her. Why is he off the hook? I had post pardum depression and my mother in law took my son for me for the first few months every weekend and sometimes more than that because she knew I wasnt in good shape. Not that I would have done anything to my child, but at least I was catious as well as others around me to care for my child….As for Andrea, who was there for her? Who understood what was going on in her mind, her mental illness? Obviously no one if they took her off of meds and said think happy thoughts…that to me is mental mal-practice..is there such a thing? Well, there should be. Anyhow, I think she is insane, no one in there RIGHT mind would kill 5 of there children. And for her husband, I think he should be charged if she is because they were BOTH parents of these precious children, and even though she commited the crime, he knew better if she acted the way she did. I hate that this even happened it makes me so friggin sick, and I dont think she is NOT guilty, of course she is, but if she would have gotten proper treatment and had a supportive husband, maybe this would have not happened. I really dont think its about guilty or not anymore. Lets not forget the children that could have had a LIFE. What they must have went through seeing there mother in the state she was in and not being able to help because they were too young, but having to suffer the consequences because her own husband and family wouldnt just step and say NO MORE! I should end it here because I am getting so angry. Thanks for listening.
I read Andrea’s profile and the comments of others. The rest of you are also out of your minds! It is totally her fault! She is the only one responsible for her fate. If she was not happy she had every oppurtunity to change it. No excuses! I do not care if you are abused as a child or dropped on your head as an infant if you can put a plan in affect to murder anyone, ecspecially set these children up as if they were still alive, you have sense enough to know what you are doing is wrong! Why should we take it easy on her because she was not mentally stable? If you murder ANYONE you are not mentally stable! I wish I was one of the jurors to handle her case she should be drowned, ASAP! An eye for an eye; a tooth for a tooth! She should know that after studying the Bible!
I agree with Joni. It is Andreas fault not her husbands. She was sick and should have been forever committed to a psych ward so she would never have hurt her children. Since it said she was Suicideal that usually means if she cant hurt herself she is likely to hurt others. I.E. HER OWN CHILDREN!! People need to use common sense when it comes to the obvious. Come one people just stop and think: She tried taking her own life so lets leave pratically defendless children in her care. I think Not.
As for Joni’s comment of the Bible verse “an eye for an eye”, and that Andrea should be drowned did she forget the one of gods mercy and forgiveness?
I do not condone what Andrea did it is morally wrong in every aspect of the way. I think she knew it was legally wrong but I am sure she felt she was acting in divine intervention. INSANE!! yes.
I underwent chemotherapy and due to very bad side effects from the medication I was given Prozac.
I took one pill and had worse side effects that I pray I never experience again. If my neighbor had not been home and I did not have the sense to call her for help will I thank god that she was home. I never took another pill.
The difference is I did not have years of this illness, Andrea did.
Should she have to be accountable for what she did, OF COURSE!! Should her husband, minister and doctor, OF COURSE.
The difference is her husband Rusty, her minister and doctor are mentally sane at least they say they are.
She needs many years of proper psychiatric care.
I pray she finds the help she needs when she is mentally sane and really realizes what has happened.
Please forgive if there are typo errors I am going through cancer treatments again and do not always get things correct.
Ursula
I agree with Joni and Kailen. She deserves to ROT in a cell like Clifford Olson, #1 Canada’s notorious Child killers.
She robbed FIVE innocent lives.
It breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes that people in this world are really that sick and disgusting!
Screwed up justice system…RIP to the 5 Yates children.
Andrea Yates was insane and should be in a hospital getting treatment. What she did was horrific and totally wrong, but if her husband and / or doctors new that she was mentally ill then the blame also falls on them for not doing something, that is was your family is for to help.
PS – in response to Kailen your should learn how to spell.
its a shame that she is going to get away with killing such beautiful children.. not only have the children been murdered by the hand of there own mother but also by society and the laws that goveern us.
Andrea Yates story is shocking and disgusting. It shows me what Satan is capable of doing to a person who allows him to take control. –In the profile about Yates, it mentioned a “religious” leader that told Andrea something about her and her children being condemned to hell, and she believed this man as if he was God, practically…from what the profile says… How did she turn into this monster who kills five innocent children…HER children? I believe it’s more than just a postpardum psychosis. It’s more than just being in a horrible environement (living in a bus with five other people)…it’s sin and this world if in a “Great Controversy” between good and evil –Jesus and Satan. Satan wants to cause as much pain and suffering as possible, and Jesus wants to provide mercy and grace and HOPE for a future with Him in heaven. Satan got into Andrea Yates, and deceived her and completely turned her life into a living hell and one in which she became Satan’s instrament. Her life as a young woman, seemed so ideal, so perfect. She was a smart intelligent woman, a nurse, and she and Rusty studied the Bible together. Satan didn’t like this, so through the course of their early years of marriage and parenthood, he attacked her, and slowly, gradually brought her to the point of such depression and self-hate that she did not want to live, and did not want her children to live either. That’s my opinion…this stuff is all the work of Satan, and all those of you who believe in heaven and hell, God and Satan… I think you would agree with me. Let’s pray for Andrea, and her family as they don’t have much to be happy about and the future doesn’t look too bright… God is good, and He is the one who makes the impossible into the possible, so let’s pray that He’ll help Andrea and her family to have strength from God and faith to believe in the hope of heaven that is a gift of God through Jesus Christ our Saviour. Be encouraged, Jesus has already won the battle against Satan, and He is in heaven now preparing a place for the Yates’ kids and for all those of us who believe in Jesus and accept Him as our Saviour. God bless you all!
I don’t think satan had anything to do with this. I believe that Adrea Yates broke the law and should be punished for it. I am sorry but many women (including myself) have suffered from postpardum depression but we do not kill our children because of it. Where was this minister when she was making the plans to kill her children. Shouldn’t he have been available to council her and tell her that killing is wrong. Is Andrea Yates crazy absolutely, should she be held responsible for her crimes again yes. I think a not guilty verdict is absolutely rediculous. What is the justice system saying, that instead of taking the responsibilty to talk to a doctor or stand up to your husband and say “I AM NOT WELL” then you can just kill your kids and nothing will happen to you? My question is “Who is protecting the children?” It certainly isn’t the courts or the doctors or even there own parents. Andrea Yates is a cold blooded murderer and should be treated as such.
I think Andrea Yates should get the death penalty. Also it is telling all the other mothers they have the right to kill thier children and get away with. I have two of my own and I would never hurt them or kill them no matter what. They are a gift from God. They have the right to live not die or have thier mothers be thier judge or punisher.
I can’t believe that there are real people out there, mothers? that believe that Andrea Yates should not be put to the death penalty. She gave birth to 5 children and then killed them in cold blood? I don’t care how crazy she is sh ehad to catch her kids to drown them so sh ehad to know what she was doing. As for her husband he should be in jail waiting for the lethal injection right beside her, he left her home with 5 kids when he knew she was depressed and couldn’t handle them. Most days my 3 & 4 year olds drive me up the wall but I couldn’t ever hurt them what loving mother could. When her verdict came in not guilty I cried, I cried for those poor children they didn’t deserve to die their mother took their lives and now she gets to live out her life and the father gets a fresh start. I’m sorry but if someone took the lives of my children they wouldn’t walk free and i sure as hell wouldn’t be happy that they get a better quality of life than prision as her husband is for her. I personnaly think he wanted her to kill their children, if he didn’t than why is he so concerned about her not going to jail? Did he plant it in her head to do it? Why didn’t he have someone there with her? Why isn’t he still in morning over his 5 children? In my opinion I think she should have gotten the death penalty. Charles Manson killed woman & kids and is in jail for life why isn’t she????
I can’t believe that there are sick people out there that are doing this things to harmless little kids! That’s not a mother in my eyes! She had to have a bad thought about what she was going to do! There is no way that she heard that her kids were going to be sinners! A mother is a place were you can send your problems not run away from! I am sorry for that little boy who saw his little sister dead in the tub! I will have every new pice of info that comes! Please rest in peace Pual, Noah, Luke and Mary Yates. Rest in peace.
I am a mother of three wonderful children. I am also a born again Christian. I believe in Heaven and Hell and I pray for my children everyday that they will be saved and we will all spend eternity in Heaven together.
It is a concern for me that my children will choose to reject Jesus Christ and therefore spend eternity in Hell. It is something I pray about everday.
I believe this is something Andrea went through as well. She loved her children as much as anyone of you loves your children. The difference between her and the rest of us is that she was mentally ill. Her love for her children was deep. She didn’t want to see them go to hell and her self esteem was so low that she considered herself to be a horrible mother and therefore her children were sure to go to hell. In her sick mind she saw her actions as actually helping her children. She didn’t realize that the decision is Gods and Gods alone.
Maybe if she had had some counsel from those who were supposed to be there helping her she may have been able to see the error in her thinking. For anyone to deny that she was mentally ill is just ridiculous. Charles Manson killed yes, and I believe he was mentally ill also. The difference is he killed in cold blood. Andrea Yates killed her children out of love. Yes it sounds sick to a sane person but to Andrea she was helping her children. Give the poor woman a break and try to relate just a little bit. We are all human and all deserving of forgiveness and compassion.
I don’t believe Andrea is beyond forgiveness. My heart aches for her. She did a horrible thing and stole the lives of her children. However they are in a much better place and instead of focusing on the tragedy why not think about some possible good that can come of this all. If Andrea can get well again she has the potential to still do good and help others. I’ll pray for her and those of you with hearts of stone who have no compassion for a woman who needed help and never got any.
Thi si sfor Kristi ean dothers that feel that Andrea Yates was saving her children form hell, ARE YOU CRAZY! I believe that any religious person would not have the had it in them to kill her kids. I love my 2 children and can’t even begin to imagine hurting them, she held al 5 of her precious gifts for God under water until they died and you want people to believe that she killed them because she loved them, she could have called someone for help, she called 911 as soon as she was done why couldn’t she call them before she killed them to get help. I’m sorry but she doesn’t deserve to be forgiven and should get the death penalty! She will never get better to the point that she could help anyone because anyone that would listen to her is a fool. Kristie you may think I have a heart of stone and no compassion but all of my compassion goes to her 5 children that were killed by a cruel woman who doesn’t deserve to be called a mother, but I guess when the next woman kills her kids and then pleads that she’s crazy they’ll have a cheerleader named Kristie who will stand up for her I hope you can still pray to God everyday knowing that you can forgive such a brutal killer. God may forgive but it doesn’t mean it’s right anyone who loves God wouldn’t hurt a gift form him.
I’ve learned my lesson about judging and being full of hate. It does no good and God is a much better judge than I.
I believe Andrea did wrong but I don’t believe any human being is beyond forgiveness if they truly repent of their wrongdoing. I think Andrea will see what she did for what it really is someday when she gets the help she needs and she will suffer emotionally and it will be worse than any prison sentence could ever be.
I have compassion for Andrea because I think she needed help and in her twisted frame of mind she really did think she was helping her children. I didn’t say that I thought she was, I believe it is Gods decision alone to decide to take a child before they have a chance to go astray. But Andrea didn’t see it this way because of her illness. THAT is why I think we should have compassion and pray for her healing. Her children are gone there is nothing that can be done to change that or help them in any way. So why are you wasting your compassion on five little angels who will never suffer pain again. Compassion is for the suffering and Andrea is the one suffering.
This comment is for Trudi and any others who believe that Andrea Yates should be sentenced to death. You should be ashamed… especially those of you who are mothers or have went through post-partum depression, or those of you who call yourselves christians. You give true christians a bad name. Doesnt God teach you to forgive one another and love your enemies? Those of you who have said nasty things about this woman are hiprocrites, and dont deserve to be preaching anything!!
I agree with Kristie, in that she believes that Andrea Yates (in her post-partum psychosis mind) believed that what she was doing was actually helping her children. NOTICE that neither Kristie, nor I, said ANYTHING about condoning this behavior or that WE BELIEVE that she was helping her children.
I am not a christian, but I am a mother, and I have gone/am going through post-partum depression. I have a 3 1/2 month old and I would NEVER hurt her, but I have to admit that at times during severe episodes of post-partum depression that I have had some crazy thoughts. The women that have been through TRUE post-partum depression would be LYING if they said they didnt have some bad thoughts during their post-partum depression.
For example… any of you who know of Brooke Shields (the actress) who had a bad case of poat-partum depression. She was brave enough to come out and say it and even write a book about it… maybe you should go read it. She even said that at times she felt like she wanted to get rid of her baby, and that is just with post-partum depression alone!
Let me say first that post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis are two different cases. What Andrea Yates was going through is different than most of us (women) have been though. Its not just the depression. Also, she had a crazy minister who was preaching extremist sermons on how bad mothers create bad children and will go to hell. Andrea Yates was a very impressionable, devout christian who was going through a VERY bad case of post partum psyhcosis.
I think that many christians (NOT ALL) go a little over board sometimes as far as practices/beliefs go. This woman deffinately took the cake in her state of mind she was in and with this crazy minister’s sermons. How can you tell christian women that “the role of women is derived from the sin of Eve and that bad mothers who are going to hell create bad children who will go to hell.”? Just because your mother/father might be bad people doesnt make the child bad or wrong!!
Those of you who believe in God know that ONLY God can judge, and who are you to judge someone whom you’ve never known ? never walked in her foot-steps? If you’ve never had post-partum psyhcosis, then how can you judge her? I dont think that in her state of mind it really hit her what she was doing. No sane loving mother would do that… correct? BUT, she was NOT sane. She was a loving mother though, but in her state of mind, and believeing that she was a bad mother because of her post-partum depression and psyhcosis, she believed the minister’s sermon that her and her children would go to hell. She thought she was saving them.
She did try to get help serveral times, her husband and her doctor both knew that she was unfit to take care of her children, and yet they did nothing but tell her to think happy thoughts and her doctor took her off the medication that was helping her mental state…
Its not just her fault… the doctor and husband and minister are also to blame.
No one is perfect… this woman was crying out for help for a long time, and no one answered her cry. I feel sorry for her because she wasnt taken seriously when she was telling her husband and doctor the state she was in. I also feel for her children because their lives were taken away so young.
This is what happens when you dont catch the warning signs and when you believe in the absolute CRAP that the traveling minister was preaching. Real christians should stand up to preachers/pastors/ministers who preach things of this type. Dont let them pollute the minds of people! You never know who is listening, or how they will percieve it!
Save your preaching for someone who wants to hear about poor child killer Andrea Yates, if you really need to preach why not about the father who didn’t help her or the family who left her alone. I can’t believe that you Kristie thing it’s a waste of compassion for those 5 kids, I guess you haven’t read the bible today, There is not one ounce of my being that would feel bad for Andrea I care to much about children to even care what the hell happens to the child killer.As for her husband he’s just as bad if not worse for leaving her alone with the kids and now that jackass is happy she’s not going to jail only because of his own guilt. I really don’t care if the christian woman on here don’t agree there’s more to life than following the bible she should have followed her heart and the children would have been safe.
Compassion is for people in need or who are hurting correct??? The Yates children are no longer hurting and all their needs are met. This is the reason I said I do not waste compassion on them. Not because I don’t care what happened to them but because I know they are safe and they don’t need my compassion or any or yours.
I take a lot of crap for being a Christian and that’s fine I expect it. However I am not an ignorant person, I don’t believe for no reason or just because someone told me so. My life was changed by Jesus Christ and that is why I believe.
It is easier for me to have compassion for Andrea because of her situation and the circumstances. I recently was following the case of Melinda Bautista, a woman accused of killing a baby in her care by shaking her to death. I was angry at this woman and judged her and I was wrong. There is nothing that could have been done for the child she was accused of killing but there is good to be done in the lives of people affected by it.
That is my point here as well. I learned a lesson and I was just trying to maybe shed a little light on the side of Andrea some of you refuse to see. You all do bad things and in Gods eyes all sin is the same. You can disagree if you like but you’re not disagreeing with me but with God.
You shouldn’t tell people to save their preaching because they are speaking of what they believe because of their faith. You are doing the same thing we are… voicing your opinion. Your opinion just happens to be one of hate and unforgiveness.
Trudi, you are truely ignorant! We are all voicing our opinions and have the right to. If you dont want to see someone’s opinion then quit commenting and quit reading! You arent one to judge… especially someone you’ve never been in contact with. No one in this world is perfect, and not one person’s opinions are going to make a difference anyway on the outcome of this tradgedy. God is the only one who can judge… let him do his job, and let other people voice their opinions.
Kristie is right when it comes to the bible… even though we might look at it differently, God sees all sins as the same. (per the bible) Even so, you’re the last person who should be saying anything about “I guess you haven’t read the bible today.” You judging Andrea, and making your rude comments arent doing you any good in God’s eyes. Unforgiveness is a sin, just like killing. As far as you saying anything about not reading the bible today… the real message of the bible hasnt changed from 200 years ago to today. You are a hiprocrite!
Andrea Yates DOES deserve to be punished… although I’m sure once she’s put on her meds just the guilt and knowing how she killed her children will be a mental prison of its own. Because of what she has been through she derserves compasion though, and after her treatment she will be able to help people by warning women/couples about the dangers/warning signs of post-partum psychosis. For you to say she cant help people in the future proves just how ignorant you really are.
Already stated Andrea Yates’ husband and pastor and doctor should be blamed too. Apparently Trudi, you need to learn how to read and absorb informtion. This has already been said, and yet you say in your post how “if you really need to preach why not about the father who didn’t help her or the family who left her alone.”
I myself am not christian (as I have already said) but I DO know alot about the bible because I have studied it and have christian family. It angers me that you are so close-minded and ignorant. How can you call yourself a christian?
You tell us to read the bible and thwn you say you dont care if the christian women agree with you because there’s more to life than reading the bible. Not only are you a hiprocrite but you also contradict yourself.
Excuse me, but I’m pretty sure that if you believe in God and call yourself a christian the bible is and God’s teaching’s are suppose to be YOUR LIFE. You are suppose to be living for God.
You make me sick! I do not believe in God and yet I know of ‘his’ teachings by reading the bible etc. I cant believe you call yourself a christian. People like you are the exact reason I lost faith in religion and God. Its pretty pathetic that an atheist is more educated on the bible and more compassionate than you. I’m sure christians everywhere are cheering you along… Not!
By the way… If you need help understanding and absorbing… read it twice and use a dictionary.
That kooky so-called religion road preacher should be hung out to dry right beside the doctor who took Andrea off Haldol
Just so you all can understand I never once said I was A christian, If you don’t like my opinion that don’t read it, yo usay that I’m passing judgement on you for your opinion what do you think your doing? I can’t agree with you when you say she killed her kids out of love, I love my kids more than anything and could never hurt them. I believe that the justice system is failing the public when they let someone off that easy for such a horrible act, this is going to show killers that they can get away with anything. The people on here that support Andrea are sick! Do you support rapists and child molesters too, would you give them your sympathy and forgivenes? Could you forgive someone if they hurt you children? Like I said it’s an opinion and everyone has their own but I think of the victims before the murders!
Just a few comments.First,Andrea is a sick twisted woman.She waited,until she could kill her babies safely(Rusty’s mom had not yet arrived),chased the eldest down,laid there corpes out nice and neat like a flower arraingment.Secondly,being a mom is hard work,I know I have 4 of the most petty,arguementitive,opinionated,bullheaded,treasures to grace this Earth. Third,all the so called religious folk,that claim to love your book of tales,are by far more murderous.Did you know that more people have been killed in the name of the Lord then cancer,WW1 andWW2 put together.Fourth,anyone ever look at the fact that Susan Smith drowned her babies in a lake(I’m still haunted by the image of them retreiving the car ,showing them buckled in their safety seats,one in a red coat,other in blue),and Andrea drowning her babies in the tub.So,yes they both should be put to death by drowning.My suggestion would be to bury them up to their necks in the sand during low tide,then wait for high tide.
I am not a Christian so I can judge all I want.My religion states “Do no harm, by action,word,or thought”.No loopholes for killing your neighbor,your kid,husband,ect ect.Because,killing takes time away from enjoying our gift of life.
FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT THINK SHE DID
THIS BECAUSE SHE WAS CRAZY.THINK ABOUT
IT.SHE CHASE HER SON DOWN AND THEN LAYD
THEM DOWN ON HER BED AFTER SHE KILLED THEM.COME ON SHE NEW WANT SHE WAS DOING
THINK ABOUT HER KIDS THEY LOOKED IN TO
HER EYES WHILE SHE HALED THEM UNDER WATER.THIS IS THE PERSON THAT IS SUPPOSE TO HOLD THEM WHEN THEY CRY AND
CONFER THEM WHEN THEY ARE SACRED.NOW IF YOU STILL THINK SHE WAS JUST CRAZY.
YOU SHOULD HAVE YOUR HEAD CHECKED!I THINK THEY SHOULD PUT HER A ROOM THAT HAS A VIDEO OF HER KIDS PLAYING AND LAUGHING AND PICTURE’S OF THEM ALL AROUND HER.SO THEY CAN HAUNT HER FOR THE REST OF HER PATHETIC LIFE!!
This is one of those cases where you’d never think that a loving mother could do such a horrible thing, until it hits close to home.
I wonder if you women have ever experienced postpartum depression/psychosis. You claim that you would never do such things, and yet you’ve never even experienced it, nor have you ever researched it, nor have you dealt with someone who has a bad case of PPD or PPP. Not many people know about the seriousness of this condition… it is very rare, but when treated promptly and properly can eliminate the problems associated with it. However, with time,stress,no meds, no support, etc, it can exacerbate the condition.
Some women never experience PPD or PPP, some just have plain “baby blues… So, I suppose I understand how you cant even fathom the concept of of a mother doing such a thing. Knowledge is power… Dont be ignorant, learn about the factors before you condemn. You always fear and condemn the unkown. There is a difference between Andrea Yates and a child molester/serial killer/rapist… there is also a difference between the woman who killed her children cold-blooded and ruthlessly because her boyfriend or fiance or what-ever he was didnt want to be with her because of her having kids, and a woman who was hearing voices and hallucinating. Get your facts sraight!
Learn more about PPP…. educate yourself and others. Awareness = Prevention. http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/feb/postpartum/020218.postpartum.html
There is no difference between what Andrea did and a cold blooded killer the end result is it same isn’t it, she killed her children one after the other and then reported herself to the police if she didn’t know what she was doing than how could she call the pollice and why did she cover them with a blanket together in bed with one of the boys holding the baby! If she was truly crazy I doubt she would have covered them up to try to hide her guilt that she had from drowning them in the tub filled with feces and vomit, and holding her oldest underwater beside her baby girl that was still floating dead. How can you say she didn’t know what she was doing your a fool! I have to say that i’m happy that everyone one here is not as stupid as you some loving mothers on here can actually see her for the child killer she is and I agree with Pac bury her up to her neck and wait for the tide to come in, make her suffer the way her children did when sh eheld them underwater and they struggled to breath pulling at their mothers hair to be released from the cruel torture they had right before she ended their much too short lives.
To Brandy and everyother wack job out there, why don’t you go check out the web site dedicated to th eYates children and see those beautiful childrens pictures and then see if you can sleep tonight knowing that you support the woman who killed them!
First of all I never said I “support” what Andrea did. I however am trying to understand her and I do have sympathy for her condition which I believe has everything to do with why she committed this crime.
To any of you who don’t believe in Heaven this is going to sound bad but do not try to take what I’m saying out of context. The Yates children were beautifull and did not deserve to suffer the way they did, but they are gone. That cannot be changed and I bet if you could talk to any one of them right now there’s no way they would want it to be different because right now they are in the arms of God and what place is better than that?
Nothing can be done to change what was done. But we as human beings can learn from this tragedy. You women with children who are so unforgiving, if it was one of your children that committed such a crime could you forgive them? Would you be willing to see them as mentally incompetent? I know there’s lots of crimes where people hurt other people in cruel ways and I can’t say if one of my children were hurt that I would be able to forgive the person who hurt them. If I ever encounter such a situation God will give me the strength I need.
One of you made a comment about all the people killed in the name of Jesus and Religion. That’s a true fact but just because someone misinterprets the meaning of Gods word and uses it to benefit themselves and hurt others doesn’t make it God’s fault. If one of your children robs a bank does that make it the fault of the parent? No! We are all responsible for our own actions. There is nothing wrong with extending a kind word and forgiveness to anyone who’s committed any wrong. Even if they aren’t sorry it takes the grace of God to forgive the one’s who’ve done the most wrong. Maybe you need a little grace in your life.
It was me that made the comment about the vicious religion fanatics.And I stand by that comment.You Bible is filled with malice.Ergo ,Abraham and Sarah (they were brother and sister ,if i recall correctly)were married,and had several daughters .Abraham begged , pleaded,prayed for a son,finally God gave him the son he desired so.After a few years God told Abraham to bring his son to the top of the mountain and sacifice him (sounds like murder to me).Then just as he was about to impale his cherished ,much loved son, to show his faithfulness to God.God tells him “stop ,I was just testing you”,(sound like headgames to me).How about the way he destroyed Sodom and Gamora. If your Lord and Savior is so forgiving ,then why worry about Hell. Jesus will forgive you.Remember,God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross,that momentious sacrifice forgives all sins committed or ever to be acted upon.That brings a thought, Jesus died came back,”drink of my blood for everlasting life”,him ascending to the Heavens, (sounds like a Vampire to me).How can these two tales from your Bible be misinterpreted.What they say is “Do what I say or else”,not “I love you unconditionally”.Next time you are reading your Bible try thinking of it for what it is ,your Control Manual. Your god gave you freewill ,just as he gave it to Andrea. You choose not to kill you children,she chose to kill hers.
As for me needing alittle “grace in my life”. I have it.I laugh ,sing ,dance, talk and play with my almost adult babies (18,17,17,and 16)and everyday I tell my kids I love and appreciate them.I have made them,raised them,taught them,soon I will release them ,to love their Mother Earth and all her creatures.
Pc I couldn’t have said it better, mothers and fathers have children to love and cherish not to hurt beat molest or kill, it’s the sick people in this world that commit these crimes and the even crazier ones that forgive them. I am not a religious person but I do have beliefs that I live by and I am glad that my children are 3 & 4 so I still have a long time to watch them grow and learn and have their own beliefs. Thanks Pac
I’m a mother of three children aged 15,14 and 7 and I may be the only one of you to have experienced psychosis.I had previously suffered from post natal depression and let me assure you that they are two completely different illnesses.Psychosis is extremely serious and frightening and may be accompanied by delusions and hallucinations,and until I experienced it I had no concept of what true mental illness was.Never once did it occur to me to harm my children but I had a wonderful supportive husband,family and doctor,unlike poor Andrea who was left to cope alone.I have no doubt when she committed those awful acts she was very,very ill and deserves some sympathy.Her husband and doctor should be the ones to hang their heads in shame.
Pac dear woman… I’m sorry but if you’re going to speak on a subject be sure you actually know what you are talking about. Abraham had two sons… no daughters and only one of those sons was the promised son whom he had with Sarah… They had one child together. Ishmael was the first son born from Hagar, Sarah’s handmaid…
When you read the Bible you have to understand that the stories are just that… they are stories depicting the lives of people. Abraham was not perfect therefor we shouldn’t model ourselves after him. The only person the Bible ever says for us to model ourselves after is Jesus. To try to be like any other person in the Bible would be silly because every other person was just another sinner.
If you ever try to read the Bible without a preconceived thought that it is full of evil and violence you will see that the Bible is mostly a history of the Jewish people. There is so much to learn from the mistakes so many people in the Bible made. And then we have the New Testament which is a wonderful guide for life. I would never presume to say that I am smarter than God and I don’t understand why he does everything he does in the Bible but I have faith that he is wise and has a reason for everything.
Open your heart a little. If you can’t find it in yourself to forgive Andrea fine… But imagine when your judgment day comes and you don’t have the blood of Christ to cleanse your soul? You can say that I’m wrong but what IF I happen to be right and everything in the Bible is true? Without making any excuses answer that question to yourself.
Kristie…haven’t opened a Bible in over 25 years ,think I did good to remember the base on the story( I did say if I recall correctly) .God told him to kill his child to prove faithfullness,then gave him a sheep/ram/goat ,I know it was a farm animal,to sacrifice.I think that is wrong on so many levels.My religion says to love life in all it’s forms.But,this is not a battle of my religion is better then yours.Notice how I refrain from pushing my Goddess on you.
This is about a woman who murdered her babies.Open question for you, Why is it that if a man kills ,he is an evil,vile,murderer,but if it’s a woman killing her kids ,she is just “mentally ill” and needs our sympathy and understanding ? Do you also forgive, Charles Manson (Sharon Tate was pregnant when he killed her)and Timothy McVie (oklahoma Bomber,killed 19 babies)? I’m not sorry,but in my book ,if you kill a kid, you are lower then dirt in my opinion.She stopped taking an effective drug,didn’t report further “episodes” to doctors, knew what she did was wrong, or else she wouldn’t have known to call the police.
Only GOD can judge.
The bible was written by man and therefor contains “man’s interpretation” of God’s word and is not necessarily the spoken word of GOD.
GOD does not punish–he gives us the ability to punish ourselves.
Fear, anger, hate, greed, resentment, and all other negative reactions are not actions of GOD, they are actions of man afflicted–a person not in their right state of mind–one controlled by Evil/negative thoughts.
Andrea Yates was severly afflicted. Her minister was Evil. Her doctor was careless and unconcerned. Her husband was selfish and self-absorbed. Everybody let her down. She let everbody down. Her children have forgiven her as GOD has forgiven her.
Until Andrea can learn to use her experience to help others, she will live in hell. When she has healed, she will have the ability to help others heal.
Negative reactions create more of the same. Negative is a by-product of Evil.
To not forgive is to carry around hate and anger. Hate and anger are Evil. Evil is a part of Satan and does not belong to GOD nor good.
Try not to judge. You cannot comprehend another’s thoughts until you have walked in their shoes.
Life is too short to carry around anger and resentment–like one bad apple that taints the rest in the bag.
Anger and resentment are a form of a mental disease. It’s okay to be angry about the actions committed but it’s not okay to carry around hate and resentment.
When your child steals a cookie out of the cookie jar, do you forgive him/her? We are all GOD’s children.
I’m not pushing my God on anyone. Everyone has their own decision to make, but I’m not going to refrain from talking about my God and Savior Jesus Christ because people get offended.
Andrea Yates is a murderer. I have pity and compassion for her because of her circumstances. Charles Manson is a murderer and his circumstances are different than Andrea’s. I have pity and compassion for him as well because just like us all he has a soul and will someday face judgement. Just because I have pity and compassion for the soul of a murderer or any other sinner does not mean I condone their crime. Have you ever heard the phrase, “Hate the sin love the sinner.” That is my goal in life. Even those people who committ the very worst crimes. It’s not my place to judge them when I’m a sinner too. I might not do things like kill people but I’m guilty of sin and all sin is equal in Gods eyes.
I trust that God is far better at judging than I and I am more than happy to leave that job up to him. His judgement is righteous. I’m not going to argue anymore whether or not Aundrea knew what she was doing because that is a matter of opinion. You won’t change mine, and I won’t change yours. In the end I will still pray for her, and God will not deny her if she truly seeks his forgiveness so why should I?
Think of this:
Andrea Yates’ Doctor and what goes through her mind every day when she encounters a new patient with a mental disease. Without judgement, I bet she “thinks” about it rather than remain a victum of bad practice and repeat her prior mistakes of carelessness.
Andrea Yates’ Ex-Husband and what goes through his mind every night he goes to bed, every morning he wakes up, every day at work… Without jusgement, I bet he wishes he would have thought about what was best for Andrea rather than what he wanted (another child).
Andrea Yates’ Minister and what goes through his mind about the time he preached about what he didn’t know and what goes through his mind everytime he preaches now, hopefully, without judgement.
GOD doesn’t punish. He gives each of us that responsibility and those of us that are good souls, punish ourselves without judgement.
er… victim (not victum).
…and please excuse the other typo (without judgement).
I was under the impression that this was a place to talk and give your opinion about the child killer Andrea Yates but some how the only thing that Kristie wants to argrue about is God, I think it’s great that you love god so much but this is about Andrea and what she did so if you really need to preach than maybe you should go to another site or even church and show your love for God there, you can be heard and appreciated there more so than on here where people have their own opinions about what that heartless woman did to her children when she killed them in cold blood. Kristie there’s no need for you to respond to this I’ve already said what I feel about Andrea and your opinion about what I feel is not welcome. You can judge me all you like but it means nothing to me.
I was under the impression that this was an open forum. Additionally, I suspect any content that is deemed “unacceptable” would have already been removed by the site’s administrator.
Kristie, I can sense your good will and your gentle disposition. You are a healer and many people do not like healers as I am sure you have experienced over and over again.
Jesus was a healer, too.
I have no doubt you will keep the faith and not let the negative perceptions of others interfere with your good will. We are all children and we all make mistakes.
For those of you who cringe at all this niceness, I understand how you feel and I will pray for you.
Nemaste…
This is to Without judgement, Can you read? I said that this is not the place for preaching, When people start talking about God and changing th esubject away from what we all came here to talk about then it turns into a battle of who knows more about the bible and God. I was saying that as much as Kristie wants to defend God that some people on here don’t care to hear it and I thought that she wouldn’t want to have to defend her beliefs to anyone that like you say are full of hate for Andrea and what she did. I have my own beliefs in God but I don’t feel I need to push it in someone’s face or judge someone who feels differently about a situation than I do>
First off there are two parts to this post, so bare with me.
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Trudi? Are you the moderator for this forum? If no, then STFU. Anyone can voice their opinions and seeing as this topic is related to GOD and considering the circumstances, people should be able to include that in this discussion.
“Can you read? I said that this is not the place for preaching”-Trudi
Do you think you have authority over people? You are NO ONE but some random person who comments on this forum… And so is everyone else who comments.
Not only can we post our opinion on the case, but we can form an opinion on the ignorant and arrogant things you have to say. And guess what Trudi? You cant do a damn thing about it.
“I have my own beliefs in God but I don’t feel I need to push it in someone’s face or judge someone who feels differently about a situation than I do”-Trudi
Interesting how you say you dont judge someone who feels differently and yet all along you’ve been telling people that they’re wack jobs because they feel compassion and understanding for Andrea’s sittuation.
You cant even keep track of what you’re saying. I figure you have the memory of a goldfish… perhaps I should feel sorry for you as well.
You dont even fully understand what people have said before you ramble off about how you think some of us are ’supporting a child killer’.
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Also, nothing against you Pac, this is just in response to your question:
“Why is it that if a man kills ,he is an evil,vile,murderer,but if it’s a woman killing her kids ,she is just “mentally ill” and needs our sympathy and understanding?”
There are plenty of men who were considered mentally ill and were vile and evil. However, lets compare a well known serial killer with Andrea Yates…
Ted Bundy- Killed/Raped women out of sexual pleasure. But, He wasnt having hallucinations, or hearing voices. For someone to do things like this obviously they arent right in the head. But, his mental illness wasnt caused by pregnancy hormones, nor did he try several times to get treatment for his mental illness.
Alright, moving on to Andrea…
Andrea Yates- Truth is: she didnt stop taking her medications, her doctor took her off of the medications that were helping her because her husband wanted her to have another kid and in turn told the doctor that there was nothing wrong with Andrea.
The doctor didnt listen to Andrea, nor did her husband, and her family didnt step in. Instead she had no support from family or friends. She felt like a failure as a mother and her pastor was preaching extremist sermons on how if a mother is bad how she will go to hell and her children will go to hell as well.
Now, seeing as I’ve never experienced Post Partum Psychosis I dont know what all they experience. But,I’ve read alot about how they see hallucinations and hear voices among severe depression and other symptoms.
I have experienced Post Partum Depression… and even though it is NOWHERE near as bad as psychosis it was very hard to deal with. Even with Post Partum Depression, if I was a devout christian, and my pastor whom I trusted was telling me that all bad mothers and their children go to hell… that wouldve affected me tremendously.
Try to put yourself in her shoes, and try to imagine what you’d go through during post partum psychosis.
Then, after imagining going through what she has and trying to imagine what PPS is like unmedicated… then you can call her a killer, and say how she’s no better than dirt.
Its not easy. I’m sure you take for granted having family or friends to help or support including a husband who will take care of you, and a doctor who will listen to you… and no matter what religion you follow your pastor,preacher,cult leader,Goddess, God or whatever… if it was someone you trusted and looked to for support and they told you how bad moms and their children go to hell and are evil while you were under the influence of PPS, you probably would not have been any different. And then people would be saying how you should burn in hell or be drowned… and you hear people say these things while you’re in a mental ward/prison and back on meds realizing what you’ve done. Beating yourself up and mourning the loss of your children.
Think about that… then reply. I honestly want to know if put in the same sittuation if you think you could come out unscathed.
Does anyone know what will happen to Andrea? Will she ever be able to try and pick up the pieces of her life or will she stay in an institution until she dies?
Brandi….What makes you think I do not speak from direct experience of a mental illness?? I was diagnosed with PTSD,Personality Disorder and Bi-Polar about 20 years ago,shortly before my pregnancy with my daughter.I have frequent thoughts of suicide, worthlessness, random rage and extreme depression.But,I do not use that as a crutch or an excuse for my actions.If I lash out at someone I take full and complete responsibilty for it.If I get so “low” I can’t function at a reasonable level,I call my shrink.He gives me some me medication.This is MY life,My mind,and MY body.And I am in control.Not some quirks in my hormones or some preacher or a man.
You mention family,none that talk to me.Ex-husband,after 15 years decided he wanted freedom,apparently him working 16 hours a day got abit boring. Friends??? who has time? I am raising 4 Teenagers.Get my drift here?no family or friends to speak of,minimal support, mental illness,both me and ex working, so lots of stress.
MY KIDS ARE ALIVE.
WOW! So much anger can be felt within some of these comments. Why?
PAC, very sorry to hear about your personal situation. I understand as I too am a single mother raising a teenager, which is like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree. I also have been suffering with major depression for many years and have twice prepared to take my own life because of difficulties. However, the last time I was struggling with feeling this way, my dog–my sweet baby–bit me and I just missed losing an eye. At first, I was prepared to put the dog down even though this was a bizarre event and not anything like him. However, as time went on, I learned that the dog was feeding off of my feelings and reacted to my stress and literally risked his own life to rescue me from my thoughts of taking mine. I have comepltely forgiven him for what he did to me. I don’t condone his actions in anyway but I do forgive him. Additionally, while I have never once thought to harm my own child, I did think to harm myself and that was a result of the illness. You understand what its like to feel that way as you have been through it. How would you take it if others touted about you and what a terrible person you were and what a terrible mother you are because your thought to harm yourself. Some might say taking your own life is nothing short of severe negligence as a mother. Some would say that its taking the easy way out. You know that the mind is very powerful and when afflicted the thought process is not rational, it irrational. Andrea Yates is the epitome of irrantionality. Yours and Andrea Yates’ situations are the difference between an apple and a fence post and it really isn’t fair to compare them.
Trudi, you are carrying WAY too much anger around with you. Try to forgive you will feel so much better about so many things. There is no justifiable reason for you to be angry about my comments. Think about that. It’s insane for you to be mad at me because you don’t agree with my position. That’s the way Hitler was, and the way Saddam Husseine, and Osama Bin Laden currently are. Seriously, think about that. Your psychotic anger is wicked and is nothing less than evil. I hope you get well, I really do. When you feel that kind of anger, send yourself light and surround those you are angry with with light. In this way, you protect yourself as well as the others you intend to harm with your angry words. Which is antoher thing to think about–your words are intended to hurt and to harm–that is abhorrently wrong.
Soemone made a comment that this is a reply to: Andrea called the police on herself and didn’t try to hide what she did. In my opinion, that is taking responsibility for one’s own actions (as wrong as they were).
GOD is good and therefor is deserving of mention whenever anyone deems it appropriate.
Pac, not all mental illnesses are the same, and you cant compare them at all. Just like the person before me stated… its like comparing an apple to a fence post.
I’m sorry that you have no support, I’m sure you know then, how hard it is. You cant imagine what it’d be like to have PPS, while taking care of 5 kids (not teens) on top of that.
Andrea’s Dr. did not give her the meds she needed, and although her Dr. was told that taking Haldol would supress the PPS the Dr. refused to put her on the meds. She was even released from the mental hospital before she was better because her insurance didnt cover it.(this was right before the tragedy)
I know its hard to imagine living with PPS (postpartum psychosis)seeing as you’ve never experienced it for yourself.
But, in no way can you cant compare Post Partum Psychosis to a bi-polar disorder.
I highly doubt that you have hallucinations or hear things that arent there… and if you do… well, its deffinately NOT bi-polar disorder that you have.
Y’know, back in the 1800’s mental illness was viewed as the person being possesed or evil. Back in that time PPS and Bi-polar disorder were one in the same. In that time both you and Andrea would be burned at the stake or hung and have men, women, and even children throwing stones at you and cheering for them to kill you.
Sounds alot like whats going on in this forum.
Even in todays age the majority of people do not understand most mental illnesses and would rather kill and say horrible things about people with mental illnesses such as PPS.
Because this condition is so rare… not many have dealt with someone who has had it or had it themselves, and they dont understand so they just verbally berate anyone who DOES understand or feels compassion for those who have it.
I’m not saying that everyone with a mental disease that commits a crime should get off scott-free… if someone can not live out in society and be responsible by taking medications until they recover (or even if its something that cant be cured in time and have to take meds till the day you die) then they should be put in a mental ward.
(Ex- multiple personalities/hearing voices/seeing things)
But, when it comes to truely evil people who kill/torture/rape women and children because they get off on it… that is a mental problem within itself, and should be treated differently.
(Ex-Just being some sick freak who gets pleasure out of inflicing pain on the unwilling/having sex with dead people/eating people)
I went to the site that Russel Yates made for his children… I saw how happy those kids looked. Children who are not treated properly and are neglected arent happy like that.
What happened is a tragedy, but there is something to be learned from it. The lesson is to educate people on the condition of PPS, so more people can be aware of how serious/severe it is.
This couldve been prevented before the PPS got out of control. It wasnt properly treated.
Instead of fighting over who is wrong and who is right, why dont you do a little research and tell others about it who dont know.
Dont get mad at me for my opinions or tell me I’m a whack job because I have sympathy and understanding. How is that helping the sittuation?
Atleast make something good come out of this horrible tragedy.
This is for without judgement, you really should pick a different name for on here because you seem to be passing alot of judgement around. You have no idea who I am but you say that i’m filled with anger and hate and that it affects the people around me, who do you think you are? I am the last person that should be accused of this I can’t even hold a grudge against someone who hurts me on purpose, I believe that life is too short to be mad at the people I LOVE, this has nothing to do with the way I feel about murderes and rapists and child molesters. I was molested when I was in grade 7 and I have forgiven the person but I will never forget it or trust that person arouind my own children, does that make me evil to. I don’t hate andrea as a person i hate what she did and who she turned into. I’m sure that before all this happened she was a loving mother and she treated her kids great but if that’s true than why hurt them, why not just kill herself and let her kids live.
Brandy, you make a valid point about using the terrible situation as a tool for future knowledged based growth which is taking a disaterous scenario and using it to it’s highest and best use for the good of humanity. That is one giant step toward true peace.
If we are to ever obtain universal peace, we must first begin practicing it. It’s quite a challenging lesson for all of us. I know what I went through before learning to take exchanged words less personally and how to make an effort to try and walk in the other’s shoes to gain insight and know compassion; as well as know that most people are good and with generally well meaning intentions, we simply make mistakes.
Not only does Andrea’s family and doctors need to learn from this but society needs to learn from this experience as well. We all live on this planet together. We all reside in the same atmosphere–we are all a part of the web of life that supports all life infinitly. Whatever is done to the web, is done to yourself. Whatever you put out there will come back to you. That is the cycle of life. Everything is cyclical–everything evolves. Love and hate are one in the same, it’s only the experiences that prompt a positive action or a negative reaction. Mankind simply needs to learn how to create positive action verses negatively reacting. A reaction is spontaneous and not well thought out, nor planned. An action is a force whereby it is calculated and planned. If it’s negative, then it is merely reactive to something previous, whether it be caused by fear, jealousy, anger/resentment, greed, etc.
Life is only as good as we make it. We possess the power of will which is the power to choose. We choose our actions and reactions. We choose to be angry. We choose to be generous. We choose to say hurtful things. We choose to only love.
Children learn wht they live. We are all children living in this web of life together. If you choose to be angry, then that is what you share with the web. If you choose to love, then that is what you share with the web. When every soul chooses to give love and share peace we will know God and all that is good…then reactions such as Andrea Yates’ will be known only by the words you read in the History of Life Book.
Once home, Andrea did not take the medication and as a result she began to self mutilate and refused to feed her children.
She told Rusty about the hallucinations, yet neither of them informed Andrea’s psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch.
After being treated with an injection of different drugs that included Haldol, an anti-psychotic drug, her condition immediately improved. Rusty was optimistic about the drug therapy because Andrea appeared more like the person he first met.
Dr. Starbranch warned the Yates that having another baby might bring on more episodes of psychotic behavior.
In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty’s urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol.
Rusty left for work and before his mother arrived to help, Andrea began to put into action the thoughts that had consumed her for two years.
These are excerts from Andrea’s profile,that back up my previous statements.
Next ..Brandy try reading my comment about male vs. female killers again ,I specifically noted CHILD killers not rapists.Rape and murder are two very different crimes.
Judgement…..why are you sorry for my situation ? Did you cause it ? nope.
Apple to a fence post ? Thats a huge stretch .Apple to bananas,grapes,or even figs (all fruits).I could understand.The comment was about being mentally askew.I mentioned that I too have a mental problem. I in no manner ,shape or form am in the same boat as Andrea.If you know your “elevator don’t go to the top floor”, get it worked on.
Judge you come off abit hypocritically of Trudy.
“Trudi, you are carrying WAY too much anger around with you. Try to forgive you will feel so much better about so many things. There is no justifiable reason for you to be angry about my comments. Think about that. ”
Then you go off on this web analogy.
“Whatever is done to the web, is done to yourself. Whatever you put out there will come back to you”
Do you put your opinions in this “web”, then expect not to get any opinions back.Unless ,it is complimentary to yours?
Intersting comments, Pac.
I’m not too certain how my comment to Trudi was hypocritical but obviously you were offended by it. Sorry you were offended but my observations still bring me to the same conclusion, whether or not it offends someone. It is what it is.
Why in the world you are so offended by mere comments is interesting as well. Apples and fence post have little in common which was exactly my point. No two individual situations are the same. You are not Andrea Yates and Andrea Yates is not you and therefor your situations are as comparable to an apple and a fence post and I believe any judge and or jury would come to the same conclusion, as well an any doctor with half a brain.
Trudi does contribute anger in this forum; her words are proof of that. So do you. I’m sorry for anyone who goes through such inner turmoil as I know because I’ve been there. The difference between us is that I’ve moved beyond that and into another realm of understanding to which you have yet to experience as what you have shared here clearly indicate that. Words clearly indicate any person’s point of view and perspective and therefor it is clear to those on the outside what you are showing us about yourself on the inside even though it may not be clear to you. Again, I am sorry you are going through that and I am sorry that you share the ugly things you see and feel. I know I am not sharing ugliness; simply being honest and saying what I see. I don’t make yours or Trudy’s truth ugly. It is what it is.
I haven’t passed judgment on anyone, again, I have simply written about the clear reality that has been presented before me.
I am not offended by your comments as they are simply words expressing what you feel. Again, I am sorry that you feel that way and I do wish you well.
Judge you are an amusing person.You come across as being preachy and condesending.Then defend yourself in a coccoon of self rightousness.
As for Trudy ,Why is her opinion “ugly and angry” to think ,state and believe that methodically drowning your 5 children is wrong ?
Thank you, Pac. Amusing is fun!
Pac, I re-read your comments about male vs. female killers, and I also did a little research. You ask why if a man kills he is evil and vile but if a woman kills, she is mentally ill and needs our understanding.
“Brandy try reading my comment about male vs. female killers again ,I specifically noted CHILD killers not rapists.Rape and murder are two very different crimes.”-Pac
I broke up the two parts so you can see it a little better… and I used your two examples. Child killers… right? Ok, here we go…
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First off, When you ask why ‘men’ and ‘women’ are viewed differently, after killing, you arent looking at the whole picture. (the cirsumstances, the motive, their mental state etc)
Even the crimes commited and circumstances between Charles Manson, Timothy Mcveigh are different.
Other than the fact that they were all ‘crimes’ in which people were killed, there isnt a comparison. Neither Manson, nor Mcveigh were specifically ‘child killers’…
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Manson
Manson never killed a child. One of his follwers killed Sharon Tate, and by killing the mother, it killed the baby. The killings were focused around popular celebrities because he wanted to shock people.
Charles started a cult following called “The Family”, and claimed he forsaw a race war. (Between blacks and whites)
If Charlie actually believed in his teachings or if he just thought it all sounded impressive, is not known. What is known is that he was very manipulative and convinced many of his loyal followers that he was “the fifth angel” (Verse 1 of the Book of Revelation) who would be given “the key to the pit of the abyss.”
His problem was that the revolution he forsaw was taking too long and Charlie was getting anxious. In 1969, he began introducing his new theory that the blacks needed help to kick off the race war and it was up to the ‘family’ to help. Thats when the murders started.
Ok, so lets recap… He did not have Post Partum Psychosis, he did not have 5 children to take care of while having hallucinations and hearing things, he did not kill his own children (or any children at that), and Manson was deffinately not at a lack for support, he had over a 100 followers… and believe it or not there are actually crazy people out there who still follow this guy.
ok, moving on to your other example…
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Mcveigh
Timothy Mcveigh set off a bomb and by doing so killed 168 people and injured more than 500. His purpose wasnt to specifically kill children. McVeigh was distressed by the 1992 catastrophe at Ruby Ridge – a siege and shootout where federal officials shot and killed the wife of survivalist Randy Weaver and their 14-year-old son.
But, it was the storming of the Branch Davidian compound at Waco the following year that provoked him into acting on his frustrations. He claims that he “decided to send a message to a government that was becoming increasingly hostile, by bombing a government building and the government employees within that building who represent that government.”
(in his own words)
Once again…
Mcveigh did not have Post Partum Psychosis, he did not have 5 children to take care of while having hallucinations and hearing things, he did not kill his children, and well the issue about having support… well, it isnt even an issue.
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So, a little review now…
Manson and Mcveigh are not proclaimed ‘child killers’. It was not in their intention to kill children ONLY. So, using them as an example to compare to Andrea Yates does not even qualify.
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Andrea Yates did not kill her children to prove a point, or to start a war between races for some cult following. She was not manipulative or dysfunctional before having children, nor was she manipulative after children.
She loved her children and took good care of them despite struggling with Postpartum psychosis, and she lived with this for many years before the tragedy took place.
Those children were happy and healthy… not neglected. Look at their pictures on the tribute site… Are those faces of children who were beaten,starved or tortured? No.
Even while going through post partum depression the majority of most mothers dont even want to feed their babies or even hold them for that matter. So, the fact that during Andrea’s Post partum psychosis she refused to feed her daughter Mary, thats neither shocking nor surprising.
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When you are not mentally stable you are unable to make coherent decisions, and have a coherent thought processes…
This would include refusing to take medications, having hallucinations, hearing things, and your understanding of an extremist sermon given by your trusted pastor would not be perceived the same as if you were a normal person who was mentally stable.
If you’re having hallucinations and going through PPP, and your ‘religious leader’ tells you that all bad mothers and their children will grow up to be evil and go to hell… how would you react?
Do you even know?
Have you ever had hallucinations?
Better yet, since you display profound love for your children… Imagine that your best behaved/ A+ child has grown up and has developed strong religious beliefs, and after her first child, developed post partum depression which turned into post partum psychosis.
Now, lets say her circumstances are the same as Andrea’s in how she believed in this extremist sermon… thought she was a bad mother and that her children would grow up to be evil and go to hell, so she kills them because in her mind she thinks she’s saving them before they become evil.
Would you go on about how your daughter should be drowned to justify her killing her children? Compare her to serial killers? Or… would you support her and have compassion and understanding for her mental illness?
I’ve answered your questions… now I’d like to see your thoughts on this similiar sittuation.
Trudy there has only been one instance where the Bible has been argued over and it wasn’t even an argument. A story was misquoted and then corrected. If I had misquoted anything in the Andrea Yates profile I’m sure someone would have corrected me and been justified in doing so. It’s a discussion that’s what happens in discussions.
I agree that yours and Pacs statements are full of hate, not only towards Aundrea but also to anyone who’s willing to show her any compassion. My guess is that you both don’t see a lot of compassion and grace in your lives and are therefore unwilling to show any. Once again it’s my surmising not Judgement. You both are misconstruing the meaning of judgement to be that no one can have an opinion conflicting your own tha has a moral basis other than your own. No one ever attacked your opinion. We only stated the obvious and that is, that your opinions are hateful and unforgiving. It’s a fact not a judgement.
I’m sorry you feel like my opinion is being “shoved down your throat.” That seems to be the excuse everyone uses when they don’t want to give another person the right to speak of a belief that contradicts their own. I’m not telling you that you have to believe the way I do. I believe it and I will for my opinions around it and I will speak of what I believe no matter what the topic. God is the center of my life so YES he will come up in any discussion I have.
McVie put the bomb right under the childcare center,with enough explosives to reach the ATF several floors above.Those 19 children died a horrible death due to him.That makes him a “child killer”,in my opinion.By your words ,Sharon Tates unborn child was a non-entity.I believe life starts at conception.Another place we differ in opinions.
On to my daughter,for intended purposes let’s call her,Drew (after Drew Barrymore her favorite actress).Let me get this straight.
Drew grows up to allow a man ,her husband,to negate her physical and mental well being.
Drew throws away the years I spent teaching her to have faith and trust in herself.To give all her faith in another (the minister).
She attempts suicide several times,hears and sees things that aren’t there,is paranoid, refuses to feed the children.Where am I while my child needs me? Or, am I so shallow that I abandoned her for something as flimsy as a difference of opinion ? Because thats all religion is,some say Jesus, Budda,Allah,Gia,ect ect.Some read the Bible ,some the Koran,others the Book of Morman ,or the Book of the Dead.Religion gives people solice and hope.It’s all the same,they all say Don’t Steal,Don’t Kill,but provide loopholes to make it ok to do so.
Sorry for preaching,back to subject.
For starters,Drew’s kids would not be with her and George(fictious husband).At the first sign of her inablity to cope.Myself or one of her brothers would take the children into our home.They may be her kids but they are still my blood,flesh and bone.
Next step,get Drew into see a professional to get her head on straight,so she sees women are not the Original Sinners,Eve offered Adam excepted.They both bit the apple from the tree of knowledge.Women are the Givers of Life,and we are important.
Drew gets well,she dumps that oaf George.Tells the minister off, with the help of a de-programer that helped her get over the brainwashing.
All lives go on.
By acting proactive instead of reactive.
But,let’s play devil’s advocate.
I stand by and watch the mental decompostion of my child,Drew.
Without stepping in to help her when I see her drowning in a sea of misery,
selfhatred,and anguish.Then ,the deathes of the children would be a moot point.If I didn’t care enough for my own child to throw her a “rope” or “life preservor”while she drowned in a sea of dispair,why would I care about her kids.
That was interesting Brandy,I can’t recall any other time I’ve been asked to imagine myself being callous and uncaring.
Pac it’s easy to care about our flesh and blood… It’s harder to show love to someone you don’t know or you don’t agree with or in Andrea’s case has done something you think is terribly wrong.
Your scenario above is what should have happened for Andrea… Unfortunatly it did not and things would probably have gone differently if the “sound minds” around her had acted instead of turning a blind eye… Maybe Andrea’s loved ones are too selfish to care what happened to her and her children but we don’t have to be that way. She did something wrong. Why let the evil that she did spread to the rest of the world by hating her?
Brandy, you made an excellent point about how Andrea cared for her children despite her struggling with a terrible mental illness. I know how neglectful I can get when I struggle with depression and situations such as that. It takes a very good hearted individual and a strong desire to do what you believe to be “right” to push yourself to car for others when its thyself that needs being taken care of. That was an excellent point. Thank you for pointing that out.
Krisie, its very good to see you back! Your smile is refreshing.
Pac, rigidity never works, whether its in motion or in thought. Nature is never rigid; it flows with constant change and adjustment. Your thoughts are ridgid and do not allow for any movement. When you cease to move with change, you cease to learn thereby allowing ignorance to take over.
You all say that your not judging myself and Pac but you call us hateful and full of anger. We are the two mothers on here that love our children and families and are standing up for what we believe in and that’s JUSTICE. Then you have the others on here who only want to quote the bible and pick on people for their beliefs and of course spelling mistakes. I am a loving mother before anything else I cry,laugh and play with my two beautifull children everyday and when their not with me because their with their grandparents i hurt and I miss them like crazy, so you know nothing about me or how I live my life I love before I hate and I forgive people who probley shouldn’t be forgiven for bad things they do to me. I don’t care what you think of me or my opinion. Right now in the newspaper is another woman who drowned her son in a car, so her man wouldn’t leave her, Andrea Yates appeal has set a real fine example for crazy woman in this world, her appeal has opened a door for all to think that well she got away with it now I can too. I guess you’ll defend her to right. She wanted to keep a man in her life so she killed off her kid to get him out of the way. Not all mothers out there love thier kids, another artice in the paper to Dear Abby was about a woman who had a baby because her husband wanted one and now she described that sh ecan’t even look at her or pick her up with out feeling discusted. Her own child she says fills her with hateand she wants to just pick her up and shake her until she shuts-up.Maybe you all should read the paper a little more and realize the world is not a perfect place and there are mothers and fathers out there who hurt their children on purpose and then turn around and plead insane. My last comment is to Pac, Thanks for the support and for believing in the right for children to live happly long lives and for beling the only other person on her who has a heart filled with love, I guess some people can’t take their noses out of their holy book to realize theirs a real world out here that’s not so black and white and the bible can’t tell you how to deal with everything.
Trudi, nobody on here disagrees that children should be happy and at peace. Every women on this blog loes their children endlessly; in that area we are all the same. You are passing out anger and resentment, that is what I’ve said as well as a couple of others. In no way, can that ever be a good thing. We are not criticizing your opinion, we are merely pointing out that you use anger and nastiness to push your opinion. you are entitled to your opinion–everyone is–but you’re not entitled to get angry at someone else because their opinion is different or because you disagree iwth their opinion. that is wrong, Trudi, it simply is wrong. In that way, you promote revenge and hate.
To Pac:
I am a mother also, and I too have suffered from severe depression after having my daughter not even 4 1/2 months ago. This is my first child, and still it is very hard to deal with, especially since my husband doesnt understand about postpartum depression.
I have moved over 2,000 miles away from everyone I knew 6 months ago with my husband for a job offer. Even before the move my family wasnt around much. I grew up in a broken home being mentally and physically abused. I know what its like to not have any support. I also know how hard it is for me to take care of my beautiful little girl on my own seeing as my husband is always working. On top of that the business he’s working for isnt doing so well and were unable to even get health insurance and he makes too much to get medicaid. I deal with the depression as it comes… and I take good care of my daughter. I play with her and read to her even though sometimes I feel like I dont want to even get out of bed, because I love my daughter. I am not a christian and am not religious, but I do respect other people’s beliefs. So, I understand and have compassion for those who havent had support and are going through depression, or post partum depression, or post partum psychosis. But also, I understand that those 3 conditions are different even though they involve depression. I dont see things or hear things that arent there, so I dont know what thats like, but I do have the ability to put myself in Andrea’s shoes.
Someone in my family was skitsophrenic.
His mother’s boyfriend and killed his mother’s boyfriend was beating his mother up, and he said the voices told him to kill the man. It was a very violent killing as I was told since he actually went outside and grabbed an axe. He was put in a mental ward from his age of 18 all the way until he was 40… when he was released he had the mentality of a 12 yr old boy. He was traumatized and had been through electric shock treatments etc. I remember my grandparents taking me to see him in the mental ward one time when I was very young, and it was really sad. He wasnt lying about his mental condition. The last time I saw him was 2 years ago and he acted like a 12 yr old boy in a 45 yr olds body. I was very aware he wasnt right in the head, but he could not control it without medication. Having seen/dealt with a family member with a very serious mental illness also helps me to understand and have compassion.
The only reason I’m telling you these things is because I want you to understand my reasoning behind my opinion… I dont deserve to be called a whack job. You shared with me about your depression, so I wanted to give you some background on me.
As far as asking you what you’d do if your daughter was in Andrea’s sittuation it wasnt my intention to have you imagine yourself as being callous and uncaring… it was to imagine your child being in the same predictament and then see if you’d still be saying those things about Andrea. What if you didnt know everything that was going on or you were unable to take care of her 5 children? If you were in a different state and were unable to drive to see them how would you afford to send her children to live with you? You dont have to be uncaring to be unable to help.
As far as your comment about Mcveigh being a child killer… I still dont see him as being a child killer. His purpose was not to kill children, he wanted to attack the government so he attacked that government building. It still doesnt count. Also, I viewed Tate’s child as an entity… I still viewed the baby as being as baby. But, still Manson did not kill Sharon Tate, one of his followers did, and they didnt kill the baby they killed the mother. Maybe you didnt understand what I said. Its hard to convey things in a forum. So, in your own words:
“I specifically noted CHILD killers…”
They are not specifically ‘child killers’… and by the way, most child killers raped and tortured children out of sexual pleasure. That is not the case with Andrea. Just wanted to clear that up.
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And to Trudi: and try to read everything this time. I know I say alot… but it all has a purpose. You have no right to call me a whack job…
I am not religious… I’m not even christian. In fact, my husband is an atheist…and I just dont really have a set religion. But, I do respect other people’s views and since this case has views on religion I dont care if people voice their opinions on it. I’m very open-minded.
So you going on about how ‘people’ cant take their noses out of the ‘holy book’ doesnt relate to me.
As far as your comments about other mothers who have been in the news for killing their children… I cant understand why you and Pac keep comparing Andrea to serial killers and women who have killed their children because a lover.
I know that this world is far from perfect… my father is a drug addict and mentally and physically abused me, I was molested as a child by a family member, my mom was never around and never protected me from my dad.
But! Not all people are evil, I know that as well.
With all that I’ve been through I am a caring person and a loving mother and would NEVER allow anyone to hurt or molest my daughter, or anyone I loved and cared about.
As far as the Dear Abby with the woman who was disgusted, and her own child fills her with hate? That is one of the most COMMON symptons of post partum depression. I take it you arent very educated about what OTHER women might go through after having a baby.
Even Brooke Sheilds, a well known celebrity who suffered from post partum depression, has talked about how at times she didnt want to hold her baby or feed her. She talked about how she was disconnected from her baby and how she felt it was just like a squaking animal… not a baby. Did you know MANY women go through this same thing, and that most cant control this feeling without medication? This happens everytime they have children… although some women dont experience it until their 2nd or 3rd child.
Its amazing and mind boggling how many women are unaware of these conditions and just berate anyone who has feelings like that. Why would you feel ashamed to feel feelings you cant control? Because of people like you who frame it as something bad about the person in general. Its not the woman’s fault she suffers from post partum depression or post partum psychosis, but MANY women are so ashamed of their feelings that they never tell anyone how they feel.
Its really sad… you say you have compassion but you dont really.
There is a difference between someone who has a mental disorder caused by hormones in pregnancy, and someone killing their child becuase their lover has a problem with them having kids.
So much hate and resentment… so many people who dont understand and dont try to.
If educating people about post partum psychosis can prevent this from happening again then I’ll speak out about it every chance I can.
Not enough women care or are aware of this condition. And, no matter what you’ll still have people who lie about having a medical condition or mental illness to try to get away with murder. I’ve been doing research about child killers etc since coming to this forum.
People who are truely evil dont just become evil out of nowhere, they’re usually that way from childhood.
Andrea Yates was not a bad person before children. She sincerely had a case of Post partum psychosis…. she wasnt killing her children for a lover or out of hate. Even women who kill their children out of hate or because of their lover show signs of this before they go through with their evil plan.
Andrea loved her children and took care of them while dealing with a severe case of post partum psychosis. She was mentally unstable
I’m not sorry if you can’t deal with fact that I can’t support a child killer that’s your problem not mine. You accuse me of being angry and heartless fine, you don’t know me i don’t care what you think. This is a forum where you and I can write whatever we want about our own seperate opinions on the appeal of Andrea Yates,this forum is about her and what she did. Did you honestly think that everyone on her would have the same opinion about this case? You have no right to judge me or Pac for our opinion on this situation, do you really think that I would read your comments and think, Oh she’s totally right and then change the way I feel because you don’t approve. You can say i’m hateful or mean or anything else you want but I think your ignorant and a fool if you really think your that great that you can change the world because you think your right. Brandy you have problems in your life that many others have too, but that doesn’t make you an expert on all situations. What Andrea Yates did was wrong and sh ecould have changed her situation by making a few phone calls and finding someone to help her, there are enough help lines out there for that exact purpose but she chose to kill her kids instead, and all you whack jobs out there support killers. All I can say is I hope you never have to face the death of one of your own because then maybe you’ll be forced to realize whats wrong with this world and it would have been too late to finally open your eyes. No child should be killed no matter what their all inocents.
Trudi-
First of all I never said anything about you being angry or heartless, although I did say that what you were saying is ignorant and arrogant.
And, I dont need to prove my point, you’ve been able to do it for me since day one with your comments.
You caring what I think/say makes no difference to me. I couldnt care less about you. You’re not someone I would choose to make a conversation with outside of this forum because you’re stubborn and iggnorant.
Since you’ve been commenting on this forum about this case I’ve seen you repeatedly call myself and others whack jobs, and yet you say you dont berate people with different views as yourself.
What is your purpose for saying one thing and doing another? Then you say you dont hate Andrea Yates but you say she should be drowned or burned in hell. Hmm, once again you’ve tried to cover up what you’ve said. Then also on one of your first posts you say how your children are gifts from God. Interesting… gifts from God yet you claim you are not a christian nor religious. Seems that you are the whack job here… not me. Not quite the sharpest tool in the shed huh?
You are a very dishonest person, and a hiprocrite. Everytime you go on about how disgusted you are with the Andrea case, I get the feeling that you’re trying to cover up your shame for feelings you, yourself have had. Trying to make yourself look like the better person doesnt fit you… someone who was just offering their opinion wouldnt be telling others that their opinion is wrong.
I didnt have a problem with anyone’s opinion… From the start YOU have been the same person who has been going on about how you think some of us are ’supporters of child killers’ or ‘whack jobs’
You are an idiot. I am appauled by the fact that Andrea Yates killed her children by drowning them. Not for a second do I think that thats right, but I DO believe she was suffering from a severe case of post partum psychosis, and under the circumstances while being unmedicated BECAUSE OF HER DOCTOR I think that she couldve been crazy enough to do something like that.
THAT was my opinion. I WAS NOT supporting a child killer.
My opinion had nothing to do with supporting a ‘child killer’… it was understanding and having compassion for the condition and what Andrea went through.
I never claimed to be an expert, but by going through went I’ve been through i have a better understanding about mental illness etc. Unlike you I learn about things I dont understand, and I dont berate you for your opinions.
Me saying that you are ignorant and arrogant is just an observation I’ve made on comments I’ve seen from you. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has seen this.
And just to put the record straight, although you keep including Pac when you say thanks for support, I dont recall her calling me a whack job. I never had a problem with either of your opinions, just the fact that you tell others what not to talk about in an open forum, and that you pick on people with different beliefs. I have no problem with Pac what-so-ever. All I did was answer some of her questions she asked.
And by the way I dont really give a damn if you think I’m making a judgement on you… because I am. I’ve seen enough of what you say to make a decision on the type of person I think you are.
Not only do you not know anything about how severe post partum psychosis is but you dont even try to understand it or learn about it. Just go ahead and stick your head in a hole and just ignore the facts. Wait till your children grow up and have kids of their own, or a friend of yours suffers from Post partum psychosis. All of your opinion pushing will blow up in your face.
You arent any better than anyone else. So get over it…
“No child should be killed no matter what”-Trudi
I would just say “Duh” but then I’d just be putting myself at your level. So,thanks for stating the obvious…
No doubt in my mind that we all share that opinion.
You keep trying to make it look like people who dont share your opinions think children should be killed.
Thats not at all what we have been saying. You’re either semi-illiterate, or you just see what you want to see.
Brandy, I very much enjoyed your post. I like your perspective-you are a deep thinker.
If you have sublime faith in yourself, despite what others say, you will always have sublime faith in mankind.
For you to maintain that level of faith after all you have been through is quite impressive. You are a very strong person and despite your lack of religion, you are quite spiritual. Somewhere, someone, gave you something during your young years that allowed you to maintain a level of faith that carries you through despite the challenges life has tossed in front of you. Your angels love you deeply.
A small percentage of murderers of children are pedophiles who commit lust murder or kill to cover up their other crimes. These latter cases are more notorious, although killings by family members are more common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_murder
It appears the internet disagrees with you.
Please give me your defintion of “child killer’. My definition is someone who causes the death of a child.McVie caused the death of 19 children.Manson ordered the death of a child.Making them both child killers by my defintion.I know you do not consider Sharon Tates unnborn baby a child ,but I do.
At someone’s suggestion I have spent hours searching the internet for solid trueful information.What I found was shocking.It seems alot of mothers kill their children and get very light sentences.After claiming PPD,PPS, PMS,PTSD,I will grant that these can be serious conditions,but help is quite easy to get.Fathers, that kill there children , on the other hand get much stiffer repremands.Remember Charles Rothenburg,the guy that was depressed over losing custody of his son ,David.So, he took him to a hotel and set him on fire.Yes,David lived,but think of the pain that child went through both physical and mental. These are the sad truthes in our society.To expect anything else for Andrea is simply unrealistic expectations.Same as anyone changing Trudy or my thoughts on this subject.Some have refered to us as “ignorant,evil,arrogent,uncompassionate,ect…”.But we are not ,we are in all actuality ‘passionate, caring, empathetic and intelligent”but these emotions are for the victims not the perpetrator.
Sharon Tate’s unborn baby was supposed to be taken by the woman that killed here but there wasn’t enough time. Many years ago, I read the complete story written by the chief investigator of the Manson murders. Their intent was to cut the baby out of the womb since. Because of how far along Sharon Tate was, they believed the baby would still survive.
The amount of empathy you show others during your life here on earth will be the amount of empathy GOD will show you when you leave this life. We all create our own judgment.
Once again I have to repeat myself since you (Pac) obviously ignored what I said or what-ever the case.
This is the same reason why I say that Trudi is arrogant and ignorant. Thinks she’s above everyone else and that her opinion is the only one that matters. She is constantly contridicting herself, and then says the opposite of what I said. Not to mention she doesnt understand how severe PPP is.
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Since you were so kind to show me a deffinition, here’s a few deffinitions for you.
Arrogant-
adj.
1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance.
2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one’s superiority toward others
3. Making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud
Ignorant-
1. Lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned
2. Lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact
3. Uninformed; unaware.
4. An unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues
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I said I DID recognize that Sharon Tate’s child was indeed a baby. Perhaps you need to re-read what I said.
My deffinition of a child killer is someone who kills children only.
In the past when I mentioned rape and torture (since child killers do both)you said that you were talking about child killers ONLY.
In that case Manson and MCVEIGH are not child killers. MCVEIGH’s crime was not toward children, it was against the government. There just happened to be a nursery in that government building.
Sharon Tate was pregnant… yes. She was killed and had a baby inside of her… wasnt far away from her due date either I believe. BUT, Manson was not out to kill children… he was out to kill well known celebrities to gain a shock value for his ‘race war’ he invisioned.
I dont think you’ll understand my reasoning. You cant even keep up with what I’m saying… no offence. I know I type alot.
If the internet ‘doesnt agree’ with me, so what. By the way… from what I read I didnt see anything disagreeing with me on that site you posted.
If you say you are as intelligent then why cant you grasp what I’m saying?
I agree that Andrea Yates is guilty for killing her children.
I also agree that she was mentally ill and without proper medication and support from her doctor, pastor, and husband was unable to control her hallucinations and dellusions.
For THAT I have compassion. For THAT I have understanding.
I have sympathy for the illness and fact that this could have been prevented if she had family and a husband and doctor who cared.
I dont have sympathy for the act of killing.
The fact is we all agree what happened is horrible and wrong. But, we all dont agree that Andrea Yates deserves compassion and understanding for what she has been through and the fact that once she is on medications and realizes what she has done wrong her own mind will become a prison.
I couldnt live with myself if I ever hurt my child or someone I love… let alone kill them.
You can call me a whack job and say I support child killers all you want, but if you go along with Trudi in saying that you just look as arrogant as she is.
I have nothing more to say. I dont have to prove that my opinion is the only opinion thats right. I shouldnt have to defend myself for having compassion and understanding. The fact that both you and Trudi try to force your opinions on other people is wrong.
Brandy your pathetic, Pac and I have a different opinion that you and you call us ignorant. Do you think that every situation only has one side. If you can’t deal with the fact that someone doesn’t agree with you too bad, I invision you as a lonely woman who sits at home by yourself and has nothing better to do than sit on the internet trying to argue with someone just so you can be involved in a conversation. The only reason your on here is to insult people, your opinions are weak and if you really need to try to insult me than have at it, go ahead hot shot, I really couldn’t give a crap about you or your stupid pathetic opinions. Just because yo udon’t agree with our opinion defenetly does not make you right. You have a problem dealing with the fact that we won’t agree with your opinion and so you say were forcing it on people well what the hell are you doing, your insulting us because we won’t agree with you! Way to go you are nothing more than a cheerleader for a sick and twisted woman.
“This is the same reason why I say that Trudi is arrogant and ignorant. SHE THINKS SHE IS ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE AND THAT HER OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS. SHE IS CONSTANTLY CONTRIDICTING HERSELF AND THEN SAYS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT I’VE SAID.” -Brandy
You are obviously an idiot Trudi, I said I didnt care about your opinion. You are arrogant and ignorant because you think your opinion is above anyone elses and although you continue to argue with me you STILL are too dumb to see that I agree with you and Pac that Andrea Yates is guilty.
My opinions are not weak, they are educated, intelligent opinions. The only reason I insult you is because you REALLY ARE ignorant and arrogant. Perhaps you should read the deffinition of what that is.
I dont call you ignorant and arrogant because of your opinion. I accept everyone’s opinion. You’ve been the one calling people whack jobs etc. Doesnt anyone notice this? If you want to state your opinion then do it.
But, dont force it on someone else or make fun of them because of their opinion. I’ve only been defending my opinion and trying to make you understand it, not choose it as your own. But, you’re too dumb to see that.
Notice that I never called Pac ignorant or arrogant… only YOU.
Wow… I feel sorry for your children.
I hope for the sake of your children that they wont grow to be functionally retarded like yourself.
In order to get a full unserstanding of what all has been said here I took some time to read through the other comments. I understand what Brandy and the others are trying to say. She is saying that she has sympathy for Andrea’s condition, and the fact that she was treated poorly by family, friends, and doctor. I also understand what Pac, and Trudi are saying. the children are the ones who deserve the compassion, not the killer. My opinion is a mix of the two sides.
I also noticed what Brandy is saying about Trudi and her contridicing herself by saying she doesnt force her opinion on people but before and after saying that Trudi is calling people wack jobs for having a diffrent opinions from her own. You would think that women would stick together and have an understanding about what hormones do to you during pregnancy. what is truely pathetic is watching you all argue over something you cant control or change. All I have to say is I’m glad I’m not a woman or insane.
Functionally retarded… Good one. That made me laugh. I love humor in debates.
Trudi, your interior is ugly. I’m sorry to be so blunt but you deserve it. You clearly show, via your crude responses, how guilty you feel. You sound like you’re a scopio afflcited.
I hope things get better for you and you can share love and compassion.
Mark, your last comment made me laugh. You make a valid point that you would think women would stick together. That’s interesting. I am a woman, fyi. I’ve learned that a certain types of women stick together and other types do not. If you’ve ever had a relationship with a women or know one intimately, you can understand the the extreme about faces that place in the feminine gender.
Males do stick together on many things. There’s like a “Guy Code,” that women do not seem to have except with intimate friends or with those that agree with them. I find that difference between the genders interesting.
I want to start by saying that everytime Trudi posts she always includes ‘Pac’ in her comments and says ‘us’. I’m getting the feeling that they’re one in the same. If I’m wrong I appologize. Isnt this is a place to comment on Andrea Yates’ conviction being appealed? This isnt the fight club. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and shouldnt be ostracized or alienated for having one different from their own.
I can’t believe the hate on this site all of you woman should be ashamed of yourselves.
I also can’t believe that woman on here who say their mothers can feel compassion for a woman who killed her children.
Christian woman who say such ugly words to others who don’t share the same opinion as you are acting hateful and judging Pac and Trudy for having compassion for children when they have both stated that they love their children more than anything else in this world and they can’t feel sympathy for someone who kills children.
On the other side you have Pac and Trudy having to defend themselves to have beliefs and their using the wrong approach to do so, but I think I would react the same if way if I was called uncaring ,ignorant Functionally retarded, your interior is ugly,arrogant, and Brandy you want to comment on Trudy’s comment of calling you a wack job when you have said all these ugly things towards her. I think you all need to just agree to disagree and get over the point of who’s right and who’s wrong. Every woman on here has given a piece of personal information but no one seems to care about that you all just want to argue. Woman on here have shared everything from depression to being molested to bi-polar and still you all throw hate at each other. All of you should grow up and talk about what you came here for and leave the other BS out of it and to Kristie,Brandy and without judgement after reading your comments you seem like the ones filled with the most pain and hate and you are only here to battle the others because they don’t share either your religion or your same beliefs and opinions.
I’m not for one second insulting you to be mean but that’s the way it looks to me.
I also believe that as for Zacks comment that Pac and Trudy are the same person it may be true but I really don’t think so they have two compleately different styles to the way their stating their opinions. But who knows.
I think I’d be calling Trudi ignorant too if she was ignoring everything I said and then calling me a wack job. She’s the one who started all this childish name calling in the first place.
I havent commented yet because I didnt want to be a part of this stupid insensitive argument. Cant people express their opinions anymore without being trampled on? I see no difference between Pac, Trudi or Brandi and Kristie or Without Judgement. All of you are passing judgement on eachother even though you say you dont. All of you are hiprocrites in my book.
At last, the masses speak!
First of all, there’s no hate coming from me. I don;t hate anyone, even people who do horrible things. Sometimes, I can “almost” hate someone but I’ve never hated anyone. Also, I am not judging anyone. Speaking my opinion is my perogative and my right. When I see a person dish out vile and horrible remarks directed at soemone with the intent to hurt, and I comment that I think it shows how ugly their interior is, that is nothing more than a clear observation–a very clear observation.
Secondly, this is forum that has more or less turned into a debate. What else is new. Most forums and blogs turn into debates. Debating is fun, and it’s good. Maybe I’m being taken the wrong way but there is no anger here in any way at all. I love a good debate and initially I commented because I saw poor Kristie politely trying to show some compassion for an obviously very sick person (Andrea Yates) and also saw how Trudi was abhorrently slamming Kristie for her beliefs. I commented in support of Kristie’s goodness. I felt it was important to show support for someone who believes in goodness and GOD and compassion. My comments were all positive and in support of something good but the responses that came back to me were the exact opposite.
Trisha and Kathy, I truly appreciate your comments and I am pleased to see that more have particiapted rather that to watch, however; the only pain I have I’ve expressed openly in previous posts and, again, I’m not judging anyone. An observation is not a judgment. Trudi judges by saying people are whack jobs and that Andrea should burn in hell. That is a judgment, observations, perspectives, and unbiased opinions are not.
Thanks again for participating. I think debates bring good character building skills and really help people to view other perspectives if they are open to it. They are great learning toools.
mistyped sentence and just correcting it s it reads right.
Trudi judges by saying people are whack jobs and that Andrea should burn in hell. Those are judgments; observations, perspectives, and unbiased opinions are not.
Brandy,
I truly am sorry that I called you a whack job I had no right to say such a thing and I hope you will forgive me. I really am a loving mother but unfortunatly I can get carried away sometimes and say things I don’t really mean. This topic I guess just brings out the worst part of me and for me to attack you or anyone else was cruel and totally wrong. Once again I am sorry.
Trudi, that was very good of you. It also takes a lot of strength to do that–it says a lot. Yeah! You go, girl!
Deos anyone have any proposed solutions to preventing a similar tragedy?
In my opinion, I think the doctor should be severly sensored. I believe anyone in a position of authority or control has great responsonsibility to society. From the little bit I read, it appears to me that Andrea’s doctor neglected that responsibility for what ever reason.
Does anyone recall the Baby Richard case where the four year old adopted son was returned to his birth father after a bitter court battle? At the time that happened, my son was the same age. I will never forget how much I cried for that poor child and watched on live TV as he stripped away from the only family he knew who loved him so much. A great portion of the decision stood on the testimony of the psychiatrist who felt that this would not be damaging to the child and that returning the child to his birth father would be okay.
The birth father lived in the town adjacent to me. I called the woman psychiatrist and had a lengthily conversation with her. I will never forget the comment she made and my response to her. She kept insisting I was a family member of the adopted parents (I do not know them at all), I guess she couldn’t understand how a stranger was so concerned about a child they did not know (which I find interesting in itself considering her area of profession). Anyway, in an effort to back her opinion, she said to me, and I quote, “I am putting my professional life on the line…” I responded, “It’s not your life that’s at stake here.” There was dead silence. I wonder to this day if that ever hit home with her and she learned from that experience?
While the Baby Richard case does not have anything to do with Andrea Yates, I felt it important to mention because a doctor’s opinion was strongly considered and that doctor’s opinion was, in my opinion, severly flawed.
Are our doctors more concerned with their own benefit and how situations will impact them verses what the patient is or will experience? And if so, what kind of steps and measures can be taken to lead these medical professionals back on the right path?
Trudi,
I forgive you… but I’m guilty of the same. I feel the need to protect someone who hasnt had support and understanding etc. I suppose I let this get the best of me as well. I guess I was wrong about you. I appologize as well, for calling you arrogant and ignorant. I know where you’re coming from because I just had my first child almost 5 months ago and because of what I went through as a child I would give my life to protect hers. I even find it hard to even get frustrated with her because she’s too cute lol…
I felt bad for what Andrea went through before what happened, and I feel sympathy for the children too. After all, my mom never protected me from my dad… and we all know that mom’s are suppose to protect and comfort.
I love children and would never hurt them. But, in all honesty, I dont know how I would fair in Andrea’s sittuation without support and medication. I know I say I would never hurt my child but having never had Post Partum Psychosis I wouldnt know what to expect. Thats also what I base my opinion on. If I’ve never experienced PPP then who am I to say how someone else would think/react.
I respect your opinion, I hope you can respect mine.
Atleast we all agree that children should never be harmed for any reason.
She chased her children and drowned them-she should be hanged,along with her pathetic husband,priest,doctors and the rest of her dysfuntional family who let her do it by not helping her in any way.She is an evil entity, disgusting,cruel,vicious and totally looney tunes, same goes for her husband. I know its the modern way of thinking to help animals like her but I would rather my hard-earned tax money go on people that can be helped like disadvantaged children or cancer research– not sick cows like her.As for all this crap about god stick it on the shelf with all the other fairytales like Hansel and Gretel and Bluebeard. God won’t kill us–we’ll kill ourselves–one way or another.
I think andrea yates needs the death penalty and if in fact her husband was trying to have more chidren with her, he needs to be right along side her. people say she needs to be in a hospital getting help….ok lets help andrea,the one who KILLED FIVE INNOCENT CHILDREN!!!!! UH, WRONG!!! sorry, she gets no sympathy from me. Yeah let my tax dollars pay for her after she comitted murder.
well i was trying to finish and i got disconnected, so i will finish with this one.
So lets let her be put in a hospital and get her better and then set her free.Where is justice in that? Where is her punishment for what she has done? Gee….you got to love how America works!!!!!!!!!!
Cheryl, I think the intention to help someone like Andrea Yates is ultimately a way to help all of society through her experiences. Only she knew what was going on inside her–what she felt; what distorted her thoughts–only Andrea can teach others what triggered her to do such a horrible thing. When she learns, she can help her doctors understand how the diseased mind functions and by doing that you open the door to the possibility of preventing it from ever happening again. If you (society, doctors, everyone) do not learn from this, you can not prevent it in the future.
I see things have changed a wee bit here–some things have been appropriately removed.
hi,whoever you are that addressed my comment. well, thank you, mary poppings. that sounds all nice and wonderful….now back to reality! She killed 5 innocent children, dont feed me crap about how to help her and others who are thinking the same. she should die, and who wouldnt learn from that? she chased down her 7 yr. old and killed him while her baby’s body lay floating in the water beside him!so lets learn from her, let her teach us something while she gets away with murder. she is no better than a child molester,who by the way should die also. She doesn’t need to teach me anything. I KNOW NOT TO KILL MY CHILDREN!!!! I don’t need a lesson in that. And if someone does, they should die before it happens.So let’s not get confused and put her name in lights and put her on a pedestal so she can tell us things. Watch Dr. Phil or something, he can tell you not to kill your kids. She said herself that she is Satan….good LET HER GO TO HELL! P.S.Oh, and the diseased mind…..that would be called demons. That’s what they’re called. I don’t care if she has prescription drugs all day long for the rest of her life. She doesn’t deserve sympathy or life.
I have been reading over the letters that are posted on here. I don’t always have time to sit down and read them all at once…there are alot of opinions here. I saw alot of people talking about what the Bible says and judging others. First of all, noone is judging Andrea, she did it, we are just stating our opinions, that’s the whole point of this isn’t it? Second, if everyone knows so much about the Bible,then why do some people keep talking about God’s love and forgiveness for Andrea. God loves each and every one of us the same, but He does not love our sins. And yes, all sin is the same in the eyes of God, but have you forgotten what Luke 17:1-3 NIV says? It says, and I quote: Jesus said to His disciples:”Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves.”
MAYBE ANDREA YATES SKIPPED THOSE VERSES IN THE BIBLE.SHE SHOULD HAVE DOUBLED UP ON SOME READING SOMEWHERE…CRAMMED SOME MORE READING TIME IN.I donot profess to be the best christian around and you can say I am judging if you want, but I know that if someone killed or molested my children,christian or not,I will kill them myself because my children are number 1. So I know I would never be able to do anything remotely close to what Andrea Yates did.The way I see it, people can do whatever they want to me, I’ll get over it, but noone is allowed to hurt my children and that is the way she should have been about her kids. It really hurts me when I see little kids getting harmed because adults can’t get it together and then to beat it all they want to candy coat it and try to justify their actions. If someone were to hurt your children, would you want them to go to a hospital to try and get better while your child either suffered or just plainly wasn’t living anymore? Would you want them to justify why they did what they did? And would you want them to be able to be around in life so they could teach others? Not me, if my child has to suffer or can’t live out the rest of their years, then the person that done whatever they did to them should have the same punishment or in some cases worse. Then as mothers, why should we candy coat what anrea has done?
I’ve read through these comments and I just cant believe the atrocities I’ve read.
I think I’m the second person so far who has has come out and said I was an atheist… so all of this religious CRAP means nothing to me. You can go on and say how you think demons possessed Andrea or say how GOD forgives all sins, but it doesnt change a damn thing! Religion plays no part here other than Andrea being brain washed by a extremist pastor who taught things that werent even in the bible.
Andrea suffered from post partum psychosis… she was not of normal mentality.
Being a father and husband of someone who suffered from post partum psychosis I can attest to the fact that post-partum psychosis does not allow you to have rational logical thoughts.
After my wife had our first child she had mild depression. My wife didnt show signs of post partum psychosis until after our second child. My wife was a great mother… loving and caring. She had always been a good person.
To see my wife go through that pain was inbearable!! I took her to a doctor to get medication and even put her in a hospital to try to make her better. sometimes the medication would make her even more sick and without me knowing she stopped taking her medications.
Instead of taking our children’s lives she took her own.
With that being said… you mothers out there wouldnt know what to do if you had a case of Post-partum psychosis. EVERYONE is weak when they cant control their thoughts and emotions.
A normal person without this disease wouldve known what they were doing was wrong.
While suffering from these afflictions YOU CAN NOT differentiate between right and wrong… you hear things… see things and suffer from extreme depression. Also,in Andrea’s case, maybe you forget that not all christians are taught the same lessons and that Andrea’s pastor was an extremist and thought to be somewhat of a cult leader.
All of you people saying you would not hurt your children HAVE NOT SUFFERED FROM POST PARTUM PSYCHOSIS. I doubt that you would even make it a week with it with the hatred I’ve seen you speak of.
And, you are ignorant if you believe that no one will learn something from this tragedy. This rare disease is not to be taken lightly… just like any other mental illness it can take the life of the one who suffers from it, or it can claim an innocent.
Stupidity and ignorance breeds fear and anger…
If you people are so outspoken and feel such anger and hatred for Andrea and feel such loss over the death of these children then why dont you take the time to learn about the disease or work with women who have it so you can PREVENT this from happening again.
Granted anyone can post their opinion on here, but, If you’ve never experienced it then your opinion is the same value as a piece of old cow dung.
Good day.
Well, Alex that is good that you are an athiest.Do you want a standing ovation or what? Noone really cares, though.I see athiest as being a cop out. As if you are saying, gee I can’t understand what the Bible says or you can’t get your mind around what is in it so you run from it and say I don’t believe in it, because hey, that’s the easy way.
So anyway, this has nothing to do with who’s athiests and who are christians. It has do do with what she did and people are posting their opinions about it. You really can’t expect mothers to get on here, read Andrea’s information, and not say something negative. You wanted to get on here and tell everyone a little bit of your story so we would think that you knew first hand what it was like because your wife went through it and then everyone would think they were horrible for feeling they way they feel. Well, that’s not the case with me. I still feel the same way.And I think your wife was stupid for taking the easy way out. She was coping out so she didn’t have to deal with it. Sorry, I dont feel sorry for anyone going through that “situation”. The way I see it, it saves us tax dollars if someone takes their own life instead of their children’s because then we don’t have to pay for a trial and then jailtime or hospitalization for them while the world has a pity party for them. Yeah there is sadness everywhere sometimes, but like I said before, children shouldnt have to “clean up” after us adults. Let us get our acts together first. Don’t make them try to put back all the pieces years later. They didn’t ask to be born. We made the decision to have them. They are depending on us through life to provide for them, teach them, guide them, and love them.
So hey I am just doing what everyone else has done-posted my opinion. I didn’t say my opinion mattered or counted.But I am allowed to type it.
So you are telling me if a man came along and molested one of your children, you would want to hear him out and let his life be spared so that you would know that what he did was because he had a hard life? You can’t tell me that would be okay with you. There was a man not too long ago in prison for child molestation and it was when the tempatures were very high and he died of heat exhaustion: I clapped. Now that child can rest and know they are safe. He is gone and I am done putting all my hard working money towards his mistakes.
I AM FOR THE CHILDREN!!! THE ONLY HATE I HAVE IS FOR CHILD MOLESTORS AND CHILD MURDERS. I AM SORRY IF THAT OFFENDS ANYONE. MAYBE THAT IS NOT NORMAL. I DONOT CARE IF IT IS OR NOT. I STILL STAND FOR THE KIDS. NOONE WILL HURT MY CHILDREN AND GET AWAY WITH IT. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT HATE ALL YOU WANT, GOOD. AS LONG AS I AM PROTECTING MY KIDS THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love my husband and children with all my heart, but if my husban would ever hurt one of our kids, which I know he NEVER would, I would hurt him myself. Hate or no hate….MY KIDS ARE FIRST…NOONE ELSE!
I haven’t been here in a while. I see some things have changed while others have not.
Alex, I’m sorry to hear about the situation you and your family went through. I hope all has passed and all is well.
Cheryl, you have a lot more hate in you than not. You hurt your children with your inner anger without even realizing it. To say to Alex that his wife was stupid for “choosing” to suffer with an uncontrollable disease is just blatant ignorance – all of which you pass on to your children.
Sorry, you asked for it.
Oh, yeah, and it’s Mary Poppins, not poppings.
Please forgive my errors. I misread Alex’s comment.
Alex, I am truly sorry. It wasn’t your fault. You could not have known.
Cheryl, you are sick, and you need help. I don’t hope anything negative on you but if you don’t ever feel remorse for what you said to Alex regarding his wife, then you will deservingly rot in hell, or whatever you want to call it…it won’t be a good place where you’re destined to go with that outlook.
Nice job you’re doing for your children. Great things to teach them. You teach hate and ignorance because you have such hate an ignorance inside you.
I’m flabbergasted. I cannot believe that someone, a mother for crying out loud, is so ignorant and foolish. You truly floor me.
Whoever commented here last on me, whatever you think about me is fine. Your opinion about me doesn’t matter. I know what I teach my kids. I see it in them everyday.They are very loving people so I laugh about your little comment about me. and your comment about telling me it is mary poppins instead of mary poppings…oh i am so sorry i hit a button i wasnt supposed to. you got me there…i guess when there are 5 children murdered, that should be the topic of the day,right.thank you for correcting me though…oh i feel so ashamed. make sure i spell everything correctly in this letter and if i dont you make sure it is corrected. god forbide if we are addressing a situation about 5 innocent kids. And the other comment when the person said that i floored them, oh please…save it. THE WOMEN IS A MURDERER! but noone can address my situation about the child molester subject can they? Seriously, if someone molested your children or killed your children, would you really sit around and wait for them to justify what they did to your kids or would you seek justice?????????? How about a comment for that one???????
Cheryl, all the comments were made by me.
I think you are cold as hell for saying to Alex that his wife was stupid for taking the easy way out. For you to talk to an individual who has gone through so much trauma and pain in the manner you did is simply deplorable and is the most crude comment I have ever heard another human being say.
You’re heartless and cold and you need to get over it and grow up. And when you finally do get over it and grow up, you will have the strength to apologize to Alex for your despicable behavior.
well, hi me! that narrowed down the field,thanks.what exactly am i supposed to be getting over? i just say my opinion, kind of what your supposed to do on here, and we have big babies like you that can’t handle it. so again thanks for addressing my question, oh thats right, you didnt do that. guess i asked a question you just cant handle to answer. if you were really honest with yourself and everyone else, like i am, you would type out the answer. i can say it though. NOONE WILL HURT MY CHILDREN! how can i apologize for something i feel, that would be an empty apology. I feel the same emptiness when it comes to child murders and molesters. There is just no sympathy there, sorry.
oh and by the way, thanks for looking over my letter and approving of my spelling. it meant the world to me!!!!
Cheryl, You are a complete idiot. You have never suffered from post partum psychosis so you cant say what you would or would not do. If you are suffering from that are are in a position to hurt yourself or someone else without seeing the consequences of those actions. Alex was brave enough to come out and talk about his experience with his wife. How evil can you be to say such things about a women who was tormented by her own thoughts? Can you imagine being so sick while taking the medication that being depressed/suicidal/dead feels better? NO… you cant! You can be stubborn all you want and say horrible things all you want but you arent helping the sittuation or changing it. You are a mean, cold-hearted person to say such things about someone who took their own life. I would never wish those things upon anyone, not even my enemy. And also, being an atheist is NOT taking the easy way out. Maybe they are smarter than you because they challenge what the bible says. After all, it was written by MEN, and back then they made things up to explain why the sun rose every day and where dead people went when they died.
Someone who is mentally ill is not able to make good judgements. Andrea did not molest her kids nor did she kill someone elses children so useing those examples does even count. I have no pity for you… you make the other women who posted saying that Andrea Yates should be put in jail or sentenced to death look bad. You might think that what you are doing is better but it is not. You are a disgrace to any loving parent. I will not even attempt to address any other comments from you because I know they will all be as ignorant as the last.
So I guess since Andrea had post partum psychosis, that excuses her from punishment. She should just be able to get away with murder, is that what you are saying? Please, you sound pathetic.And no he wasn’t being brave, he came out to tell me about his wife so I would feel bad for my opinion and when I didn’t you just came all unglued.And thanks for speaking up for him, seeing as he can’t. Maybe he was able to read what I said, didn’t agree with it and move on. Not everyone sees things eye to eye. I could careless if everyone on here disagrees with me or not. I didn’t come on here hoping I would gets votes. I came on here to post my opinion.Yeah and I would never wish something like this on anyone either, but if it came down to the adult getting to live their life or the children, I am for the children. I can’t help it if there is anyone else on here that is afraid to say that. I am not. My kids are first, not me!!!!!!
I didnt say she molested her kids or killed anyone elses kids. I was saying what she did is just as bad as a child molestor or murderer. Please read it carefully. And all I did was ask you what you would do, but obviously you can’t seem to answer my question. It must be a touchy topic for you and you don’t want to talk about it because then you might start to sound like me and oh my goodness we cant show our anger around others, it might show how weak you are.And since you are not going to address any more of my comments, I know I will never get your opinion on that one. You have no idea what kind of parent I am from a comment I have made on here. If you can, you are pretty shallow. I dont need you telling me if I am a good parent or not because what you say about my parenting doesn’t make it what you say it is. So the more you make those comments,the more I laugh at them.You are ignorant if you think my comments on this page have made me a good parent or bad one. My kids are the most happiest, loved kids I know. I see it in them daily and so do alot of other people because I get comments on my kids alot.So you alone and not even knowing my family- your opinion about me and my children doesnt count for me.
Yes, men wrote the Bible,but they just didnt start writing down stuff like in a journal, the words came from God,not man.Maybe you need to get some knowledge before you start attacking me about it.
I agree with Mel–Andrea, you are an idiot.
Major Oops!!!!
Not Andrea.
CHERYL, you are an idiot.
I’M BACK
You all know you missed me.Time for a dose of reality.
Without Judgement you are still being judgemental and preachy.Always a good adversary.
Alex your departed wife also stopped taking her meds,making her much like Andrea.
Mel it was Alex’s wife life, she chose to take it.She didn’t want people to hurt because of her.It was her choice to live (if you call that living) or die.
Cheryl ,I agree with some of your thoughts and ideas.But,you are coming off way too abraisive,and uncompationate.I will answer your question.Hell hath no fury to match if anyone harmed my kids,but everyone says that.Which brings me to your Bible.Let me get this straight.God gave the words to the men to write,but not the women.Is your God sexist? Speaking of God talking to people,Moses was adopted,raised in an Egyptian palace,learned to read and write Egyptian.Hebrew is the language that the commandments were written in,slaves were not allowed to be educated ,how did they know what those tablets really said.It could have just simply said “Love Each Other”.That would have made for a much better story for your little book of bedtime tales.
Cheryl it is obvious that others comments to you bother you greatly.You can literally feel your anger.
All others “Hi,I am Pac.I am opinionated but cute”.
Actually Pat, it is not others opinions about me that get me upset, it is the topic of a child being hurt and everyone wants to sheild the one that did it.I agree I do get a little mouthy. But I think everyone needs to stop trying to sheild the ones that hurt these kids. And I don’t care what anyone else says, I know what I would do if someone killed my kids or molested them.
And the part about the Bible, you are bringing up a whole different subject. I could careless if God chose a man or women to write words or give his sermons. That is not my concern when it comes to my salvation. Thats petty stuff. Like I said before I didn’t come on here to get votes. I came on here to give my opinion,just like everyone else. Sorry there are people out there that I affect when I talk. But you know what, I realized something Sunday morning that maybe I have been getting on here and getting hot headed about this subject. I have been praying for myself and this situation and what I have realized is no matter what I say it is not going to make a difference what Andrea Yates did to her kids. Satan was able to come in her life and take over and that was a shame. But the good outcome of it is, is that the children’s souls went back to God who gave it and they are asleep in Christ and when He comes back to take us all into Heaven, then those kids are going to have a conforter away from their mom and they will never have to worry about Andrea Yates anymore. They will be with their creator, Jesus Christ. The one that died on the cross and who loves them and everyone else, but does not love the sins we commit. So when it all comes down to it, I know that I don’t have to get on here and argue with anyone about this topic and try to make sure these kids get their justice. I have realized that they have already gotten their justice. Unless she gets forgiven by God for what she has done, and He can because He is bigger and better than me, then she will get her punishment. But see, sometimes I get a little bit ahead of myself and forget that GOD IS IN CONTROL. He is the one that will be the judge in the end and yet while this topic is touchy for me, I will just learn to pray about it and pray that Andrea will ask for forgiveness and be forgiven by her creator. Because it is a hard topic for me to talk about, so I will leave it to God and know that their are people out there that aren’t going to agree with me and that’s okay too.It doesn’t make what she did any different. What she did was wrong. My heart hurts for what those kids had to go through that day. I couldnt imagine what could’ve been going through the 7 year olds mind when he realized what was going on. My daughter was the same age as he was when that happened and my heart goes out to him. Like I said before, I am not on here to get liked or disliked and I know that there are going to be people that don’t agree with what I am saying today. But that’s okay. This is the way I have realized I have to deal with it. There are alot more things I could say about this topic, but what is it going to accomplish? nothing, she still murdered her kids and she is still going to get off with a slap on the wrist because you know you got to love the way America works. It says in the Bible that a day will come when people will say good is evil and evil is good. And Proverbs 24:19-20 says: Do not fret because of evil men or be envious of the wicked , for the evil man has no future hope, and the lamp of the wicked will be suffed out. So unless she gets forgivesness from God, that is her future.
correction….at the end of my letter….i meant to type, snuffed out instead of suffed.
Satan didn’t kill Andrea’s kids ,Andrea is the one that drowned those babies.To call it an act of Satan is removing responsibility from the killer.If all acts that are good are “acts of God”,and bad acts “acts of Satan”,what are the “acts of Humans”.How about a little personal responsibility,Andrea killed those defenseless babies,she knew it was wrong,she was told not to have more kids but did so anyway, stopped taking her medication, and lied to her doctors.She is in the wrong,”brainwashed” by the preacher I’ll buy.But,to blame her free choices (God gave man free choice,to deside their destiny)on Satan …..nope ,won’t accept that as anything other than an excuse.
First let me make a change…i called you pat,i read it wrong. I did not say that Satan killed her children. I said he came into her life which is exactly what he did. By no means do I think that she should walk free. That is what I have been saying all this time. I don’t think she should be allowed to bear anymore children,live, breath, anything. no existence.But as I said before, that is not going to change what SHE did. And God is a loving and forgiving God and if we are truly sorry for our sins and do not do them again, He will forgive us. Bigger and better than I will ever be. I have no sympathy for her at all. What I said was that the only thing that will help me about this situation, because it does bother me, is Proverbs 24:19-20. And the reason I said that Satan came into her life and she killed her kids was because without Satan there would be no sin. Satan was cast down from Heaven into Hell. Don’t confuse what I am saying, Andrea killed her kids and I believe she ought to be punished for what she did. Why do you think that I have been saying that from the start? If I thought we should be laying the blame somewhere else I would be agreeing with these other people that want to sheild her and I would be saying she shouldnt be punished because it was Satan’s fault. That is NOT what I am saying at all. I THINK SHE IS GUILTY AND SHE SHOULD DIE THE SAME WAY HER KIDS DIED. But my point was in the last letter was that through all of this I let me get ahead of myself and I forget that GOD IS IN CONTROL. He takes care of it all. God brought me out of a bad situation that I could have easily not been setting here today, but He helped me out of it and I know that He is real.
Cheryl as I said earlier ,you and i agree on alot with this situation.As for her perishing in the same manner,I am still fond of the idea ,burying her up to her neck in the sand at low tide,and wait for high tide.So she can watch her death coming.I will not comment on the God thing,if it gives you solace then it is a great thing.
I can respect that comment pac. That was my main point all along. Noone has to agree on the religion part of this. Thats the way I see and I don’t expect everyone to see it the same way, I was just putting what I thought on here. Not too long ago, I read the book they have out on what happened to those kids and it bothered me. I guess when it comes to kids, it breaks my heart and I just go off.
I have been reading everyones comments and would like to elaborate on what I have found, The perception that people who plead insane somehow beat the system is dead wrong, according to Jerry McLain, spokesman for the Vernon hospital where Andrea Yates is serving her sentence.
“Just because a person is found not guilty by reason of insanity … doesn’t really mean that they get off scot-free,” McLain said. “The reason for that is because of the dangerousness issue.”
“An insanity plea admits that the defendant actually has committed a crime — and is consequently a threat to society. Patients undergo rigorous rehabilitation and evaluation processes to determine when — if ever — they can be transferred to a lighter security hospital or possibly be released”. I just wanted to share that for those of you who feel Andrea was taking the easy way out. In turn she is getting the help she needs. She obviously went and seeked the help she knew she needed and was turned away and turned into a baby factory. Dont get me wrong, she did something so awful beyond what any mother can not even imagine. This goes to show how ill she really is and how sad it is.
Yolanda, to address your comment. She is getting off scot-free. She is in a hospital until they say she is better. She is not getting punished. She is getting helped. There is a difference. Good…let her get help, but when she leaves the hospital, she should not be allowed to roam the streets and be a regular citizen like everyone else.What she did was horrific. She needs to be ranked right along with all the other murderers and child molesters in the prisons. Yes, I agree it is very sad, but sad for who? Not for her. Do you feel the same way about the other murderers and child molesters in the prisons where you live? Do you think they should be out on the same streets as your children, if you have any, or your neices and nephews? I am just trying to understand why people are feeling sorry for her. It blows my mind. Why don’t people see her as just any other murderer. Those were some great kids she had. There are people out there that would love to have kids and she just threw away her priviledge. I would think that there would be people that are sad enough for the kids that they would not have one good thing to say in Andrea’s corner. I have said in a previous email that I will pray for Andrea , and I have, but I still can’t understand how people can just be content with the fact that she is just sitting in a hospital getting her treatment and when she is done, she will be all better and all her punishment was is hospitilization. That is not right and it is not justice.
Glad to see the end of all that. Cheryl has a lot to learn, as does Pac. But that is okay, they meant well.
What that women did to her kids was horrible. I hope it haunts her for the rest of her miserable life. I hate her. I’m a children’s person. I love kids, and when I see a kid being murdered by their own parents, just burns me up inside. Andrea you are a cold calculating murderer. You knew exactly what you was doing. I know you was depressed and frustrated, but your kids should of been a cure for your depression, but they weren’t. You took 5 lives away, and so young at that. I truly hate what you did to those kids, damn you yates, damn you. They could of had a life, but you took it away. How can you live with yourself, as for the husband why are you still with this women. She killed your beloved kids, why in the world would you do that. You justified yourself as being pathetic. Remember those kids are buried not you. You can easily have a life. Not those youngsters, because your mentally illed wife killed them. I hate her and I hope she pays for what she did for the remaining of her miserable life.
Ive read a lot of comments left here.
Im shocked to read that people actually put the total blame on Andrea Yates.Her husbands needs to be held responsible also.He knew what condition she was in and convinced her to stop her meds and have another baby.How could he put this on his wife who was suffering from depression?
Im so sorry for what happened to those children, and yes, Andrea Yates should be punished, which she is, but for Rusty he gets to move on with his life and now is remarried and having a child.Where is justice? He is as much responsible as Andrea is, he was well aware of her mental history and still he insisted on more children and no medication.What was he thinking?
One day he will have to answer to a higher power just like Andrea will too.
I personally think she was off her rocker, mentally insane…. Period, she cracked, and killed her kids, without a thought to them at all…. Has nothing to do with Satan. Satan doesnt give a ### if we read the bible, or preach… Plus if she was so into the bible.. blah blah,,, she totally misunderstood the verses, scriptures.. She murdered her kids….Point blank,, and not for Satan at all, and she will not burn in hell for her sins!!!!! HELL is HERE FOLKS…. eye for a eye,, (hebrew scriptures).. forgive your enemies (greek scriptures)..I got a better idea hang the sick bitch.
I cant believe that some of you people are really saying what you are saying. I know people who had P.P.D and had the intentions to hurt themselves or even their own children, but never did. If Andrea Yates was reading the bible how people said she was reading the bible, then she would understand how it said “thou shall not kill”. She knew what she was doing because it was premeditated. She ran the water then one by one killed them and laid them down on her bed. How could her husband be held responsible for her actions. He was the only one making money for the household. His mother was on her way out there to help, but no one can be held responsible for her actions.
OK wat a jerk!! who would give birth to children n then KIll them??!! she needs to be assigned death penalty!! SHE NEED TO DIE!! before she kill more children she need to be killed!! y would u kill ur children?? n then call police? jerk!! n her oldest son tried to escape.. at that she should have realized that she was doing something bad if she was ill. but instead she dragged him to bathtub and hold him down in tub!!! KILL HER!! b4 she kill more innocent child!! and her husband?? nerd?? if he knew that she was ill, after her first hospital visit.. cant he just stop reproducing but instead he reproduced more!! and helped her in killing those children’s!!
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SHE N HER HUSBAND NEED TO DIE!!
her husband is equally responsible for death of those innocent small childrens as he reproduced more and more though he knew she was ill!!
No one has a right to judge Andrea Yates. Only God has that right. But we are all entitled to have an opinion, so may i give mine. I had never heard of post partum psychosis before reading a book about Andrea Yates. But i have heard of manic depression and all the other mental illnesses. It sounds to me like Andrea Yates was extremely ill.
My heart goes out to her because she is the one person who loved her children more than anyone else could ever love them,and now she is going to live the rest of her life without them. To me that is punishment enough.
I have read all the comments posted on this site and I was shocked that a lot of women think Andrea should have been given the death penalty.
I was very impressed by the second comment posted on july 8th 2006 by Charles. I would like to shake his hand for giving us an intelligent and compassionate comment.
I only hope the other people who condemn Andrea will one day be able to find some compassion for her too
Actually Brandi and Kristi…all sins are not the same to God. As a catholic, we believe in mortal sins that are not forgivable by God and ensure your place in hell. Taking of a life even your own is a mortal sin and their is no forgiveness from God for that. Andrea Yates, child killer, committed a mortal sin and nothing she does will prevent her from hell. That is not my opinion but God’s. The Catholic faith has a much longer standing history than your born again christian faith that tends to give people what the want to hear like God forgives everything so do what you want and then just ask for forgiveness. It does not work that way. NO WHERE in the Bible does it state that God owes us anything including forgiveness so I am sorry but you two are wrong!
I completely agree with Charles’ comments. A very intelligent and unbiased view – we have to look at all angle’s and try to see things for what they are – not what they seem.
When this first came to light, I was horrified and disgusted. As time moves on so does my fear and loathe of the unknown. When will a machination steel my bravado, or cheat me from sanity? How can others judge from what they don’t know, nor have not experienced? I am still horrified and disgusted by actions indescribable, yet there are others who make horror an every day word. Those self described “people” cast stones on the weakest of us all dictating out of ignorance and fear as to whom are the most popular and idealistic. Mental stuff happens- we all hope not,- involving ourselves much less our beloved family members. I am not sure when to decide a life has been fought for and won and when a life should be thrown away. Does everyone really think Andrea Yates is not suffering for her actions – not to say she shouldn’t. Those babies deserved better!! However, before you decide all – get your ducks in a row. Know all sides and all sides should take blame. There is a lot of history here. Alot of mental illness ignored – someone is sick and someone is sane. No excuses. But by the grace of god, none of us will ever wake to such unspeakable acts by our hands or others that befell the Yates children.
I am only mourning for all the kids who have been through such a tragic death. Kids should be bringing hopes for the future, not hell.
And I really feel very very bad about not innocent kids not having a chance to understand the world before too short they have to leave. It is way to cruel for the mother to give them lives and take them away.